Mark Weinberger
Former Global Chairman and CEO, EY
No matter what job I had, no matter what promotion I got, when I would call him [my father], he would always say the same thing – that's great, but never forget who you are and where you came from.
Summary
In this episode of Leadership Matters, Alan Fleischmann sits down with Mark Weinberger, the former Global Chairman and CEO of EY. Throughout their conversation, Mark shares his insights into his leadership philosophy, shaped by his experiences in government, the private sector, and his family's values of humility and education. They discussed Mark’s career at EY in depth, including how he expanded the business to over 300,000 employees across more than 150 countries. Alan and Mark also discuss his role in bridging business and public policy, his work across multiple presidential administrations, and his contributions to Fortune 500 boards.
Mentions & Resources
Guest Bio
Mark was the Global Chairman and CEO of EY, a leading global professional services organization with 284,000 people, operating in more than 150 countries. Mark led the organization through a purpose-fueled transformation centered on EY’s purpose of building a better working world.
Mark’s government experience includes serving as Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Department of the Treasury (Tax Policy) in the George W. Bush Administration. Mark was also appointed by President Clinton to serve on the Social Security Administration Advisory Board. He served as a member of President Trump’s former Strategic and Policy Forum and as a member of President Obama’s Infrastructure Task Force. He also worked in the U.S. Senate.
Mark played an active role in the World Economic Forum (WEF), as a member of its International Business Council and as a Global Agenda Steward for Economic Progress. He co-chaired the Russia Foreign Investment Advisory Council (FIAC) with Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev and served as Chairman of the International Business Leaders Advisory Council (IBLAC) to the Mayor of Shanghai.
He is on the Board of Directors of Johnson & Johnson, MetLife and Saudi Aramco. Mark serves as a Senior Advisor to Stone Canyon Industries Holdings and Teneo. He is an Executive Advisor to G100 and World 50. Mark also serves as a Strategic Advisor to the Board of FCLTGlobal, which focuses on long-term investing and corporate governance. Mark is on the CEO Advisory Council of JUST Capital. He sits on the Board of Directors of the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER), is a Senior Advisor to Chief Executives for Corporate Purpose (CECP) and is a member of the Aspen Economic Strategy Group.
Mark also sits on the Board of Trustees for the United States Council for International Business (USCIB), the Greater Washington Partnership and The Concord Coalition. He is member of the Board of Trustees for Emory University and Case Western Reserve University. Mark is a member of the Advisory Board of the Liveris Academy for Innovation and Leadership at The University of Queensland.
Mark has a BA from Emory University, an MBA and JD from Case Western Reserve University and an LLM in Taxation from Georgetown University Law Center. He has an honorary doctorate from the Kogod School of Business at American University.
Transcript
Alan Fleischmann
Welcome to Leadership Matters on SiriusXM and at leadershipmattersshow.com. I’m your host, Alan Fleischmann. I’m joined today by someone who has seamlessly navigated the highest levels of business and government, bringing with him a wealth of leadership insight, strategic vision, and a deep commitment to building a better working world. Mark Weinberger is the former Global Chairman and CEO of EY, one of the largest professional services organizations in the world, where he led over 300,000 professionals across 150 countries. Under his leadership, EY grew its global reach into one of the greatest companies of its kind and strengthened its culture of innovation, inclusivity, and integrity. Mark’s impact doesn’t stop there. He’s a seasoned public servant, having worked in multiple presidential administrations from Presidents Clinton to Trump. He has also been an advocate for businesses engaging in public policy and has served on the boards of some of the world’s most influential companies, including Johnson & Johnson, MetLife, Saudi Aramco, and JPMorgan.
I’m excited for Mark’s journey from his roots in Scranton, Pennsylvania, to the boardrooms of Fortune 500 companies and the White House, and for the lessons in leadership he’s learned along the way. Mark, welcome to Leadership Matters. I should say you’re also a great friend. I admire you so much, and it’s a great personal pleasure to have you on the show today as well.
Mark Weinberger
Alan, thank you. After that introduction, I can’t wait to hear what I have to say. That was very nice of you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Always good to talk to you.
Alan Fleischmann
I meant every word. Let’s start at the beginning. I know you grew up in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Tell us a little bit about what life was like around the home—what your parents did, any brothers and sisters, and anything you want to share that was special about the place you grew up and your home.
Mark Weinberger
Great question to start with, because I really believe that was the root of everything for me. The Giving Tree was my favorite book, and all of my success was probably grounded in my upbringing. My mom and dad grew up in Scranton and nearby Old Forge—home of The Office, if you’ve ever seen it. Those were all my friends growing up. It was a great town and a great place to grow up.
I have three sisters I’m still very close with. My dad was in naval intelligence and wanted to see the world, but he was called back to Scranton when my grandfather passed away, to run a plumbing company. So he remained in Scranton and, despite his instinct to travel, lived there his whole life with my mom. My mom did not go to college; she worked at home raising me and my three sisters and taught us a tremendous amount.
My father believed deeply in education. He wanted to see the world and didn’t get to, and he wanted to make sure we had that opportunity. We were middle class, and he put a lot into giving us a great education. No matter what job I had or promotion I got, when I called him he would always say the same thing: “That’s great, but never forget who you are and where you came from.” I honestly believe that gave me the courage to recognize that what I needed to accomplish in life was based on what I wanted, not his expectations. It opened up an incredible sense of courage and optimism to try different things—from being an entrepreneur, to working in government, to working in big companies. That was really helpful, and of course my lifelong partner, my wife, let me take these journeys and understood they were important.
Alan Fleischmann
So important when parents dream big, and when they’re dreaming big for their children, not just for themselves. The way you describe it, your life journey became an extension of his.
Mark Weinberger
No doubt. My dad and mom really lived through our successes and failures and our ups and downs. Unfortunately my dad didn’t get to see me become CEO of EY, but he saw a lot—my kids, which is most important, and my early business success. My mom always kept us grounded.
You love the honesty you get from your parents, and some days you don’t. When I became Chairman and CEO of EY, The Scranton Times called my mom and said, “Your son just became the Chairman and CEO of this big company. What do you think?” She said, “No one is more surprised than me.” Then she went on to say I wasn’t very good at math. She denied that later, but I know very well she said it with the best of intentions. She was brutally honest.
Alan Fleischmann
It sounds like she also wanted to keep you humble. She could do that privately; she didn’t have to do it in the newspapers.
Mark Weinberger
Exactly.
Alan Fleischmann
Any mentors along the way in high school, junior high, or early on?
Mark Weinberger
Really my dad. He taught me balance and was my true mentor in life and in business. Beyond that, there were others. One of my first was Senator Jack Danforth, whom you know. I went to the Senate to work as a very young staffer, right after law and business school. I was scared to death; I couldn’t name my own politicians from my state. He was from Missouri; I was from Pennsylvania. I was a young tax lawyer, and he needed someone because he was on the Finance Committee.
He never asked my political party or much about my technical tax knowledge. He asked a lot of questions about my life, how I got to where I was, and why I wanted to work there. When I started working for him, he was like what I now call a “doughnut” in Congress—right in the middle. He wasn’t very liberal or conservative; he traversed the aisles to build consensus. He listened to everybody.
He brought me to every meeting with CEOs, even when I added no value. He taught me not to think just about myself but to bring other people along. He treated the secretary outside his door the same way he treated the Secretary of State. That was great mentoring in thinking about life and business. Including me in everything gave me confidence and knowledge I would not have gotten that early in a big company.
Alan Fleischmann
If you’re invited to be at the table, you need to be the best you can be at the table. He was a very elegant and very humble man.
Mark Weinberger
My government experience taught me a lot about leadership outside of government, which you don’t always think about.
Alan Fleischmann
And Susan Schwab, an old friend of mine—was she around the same time?
Mark Weinberger
Susan was just before me. I know her. She was a great Trade Representative and has gone on to do great things.
Alan Fleischmann
Backing up a bit, you went to Wyoming Seminary. What made you do that, and how did it fit into your leadership journey?
Mark Weinberger
My parents made me do that. I was not always a great student. I went to Scranton Central High School, and they thought I’d get a better education at a boarding school down the road.
Going there taught me early to move to a new place, build relationships, and adapt. It was hard, because I’d been getting really good grades in the public school system in Scranton, and when I went there, I was on a different rung. It brought me back to earth regarding my study habits and other things, which was their intended effect. I had a great experience, met new people, and it helped me get into Emory University in Atlanta—where I probably never would have gone if I hadn’t gone to Wyoming Seminary. My only requirement for college was that it be in the South.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that—your requirement was to be in the South, so Emory became a top choice. You’ve been very involved with Emory since. What was that experience like?
Mark Weinberger
I was heavily into fraternities and a big basketball gym rat. I played throughout college. I was a decent student in economics and political science and made great friends I still have in my life.
When I got out of Emory, it prepared me socially and gave me some basic skills, but I wasn’t ready for life yet. That’s why I chose to go straight to law and business school. It wasn’t because I had a clear vision; it was more that I wasn’t ready for the real world. The only school in the U.S. I got into for both law and business at the time was Case Western Reserve University in Ohio—they now have more joint programs, but back then it was rarer. Sight unseen, I went from Atlanta to Cleveland for four years and got my JD and MBA. That really launched my career.
Alan Fleischmann
What made you want to do the combo?
Mark Weinberger
I still didn’t know what I wanted to do. I liked business and law, but I didn’t necessarily want to be a lawyer, and I didn’t know much about business. I figured if I did both degrees, it would help me think better and expose me to both worlds.
I ended up focusing on tax law, which is the intersection. Taxes are one of the biggest issues on financial statements and balance sheets, and it’s law. That’s where I gravitated. When I went to work in the Senate, it was to learn more about tax law where it was being made. An advisor from the Arthur Young side of the business had said, “You should go do this. If you want to advise people on tax law and you know how it’s made and what they think about when they write the rules, you’ll have a step up on everyone else.” I thought he was basically firing me, but it turned out to be incredibly positive.
Alan Fleischmann
And that’s how you got to Washington—through your job and then Georgetown?
Mark Weinberger
I got to Washington because I was working for Ernst & Whinney at the time. They put me through Georgetown at night to get my master’s in law. My job came right after school; I was working at Ernst & Whinney, which later merged with Arthur Young to become Ernst & Young. I was already in D.C., and after a couple of years there, I went to the Senate.
Alan Fleischmann
How long were you in the Senate before you started your own thing?
Mark Weinberger
About five or six years. I was there four years when Senator Danforth announced he was retiring. President Clinton then set up his Entitlement and Tax Reform Commission to look at big issues, with Bob Kerrey and Jack Danforth as co‑chairs. They looked hard for great candidates to be chief of staff, and at the end of the day they couldn’t find one everyone agreed on. I think they settled on me because I was acceptable to both Democrats and Republicans, which was difficult then. It was 1995, right after the earthquake election when Republicans took over Congress for the first time in 40 years. It was a very interesting experience to be leading that commission of members of Congress at that time.
Alan Fleischmann
I was on the Hill then; it really was an earthquake. After 40 years of one‑party control, the shift with Newt Gingrich was huge.
Mark Weinberger
And then trying to get everyone to coalesce around fixing long‑term problems that still exist—entitlements and taxes—was quite something. It was a great experience, though. We did some amazing work with a great staff, produced a game to show people how to fix the budget, and scoped out the questions you need to ask about the long term. Those issues are still there, but we still haven’t had the courage to fix them.
Alan Fleischmann
The fact that you were seen as a bridge builder between two big gaps between the parties kind of reflects where we are now too.
Mark Weinberger
Interestingly, I was appointed by President Clinton, and the very next year, when President Bush won, he asked me to be Assistant Secretary of the Treasury. I was the first sub‑Cabinet confirmed in that administration. He had run on tax reform before 9/11, which we went through. So it was interesting to go from being a Democratic nominee to a Republican nominee in a two‑year period.
Alan Fleischmann
When you left the Hill, did you always know you wanted to be an entrepreneur and start your own firm?
Mark Weinberger
No, not at all.
Alan Fleischmann
How did Washington Council come to be?
Mark Weinberger
When I left the Hill, three real leaders of different committees—chiefs of staff from Congressman Dingell, Congressman Rostenkowski, and Congressman Vander Jagt’s circles—were starting a big Democratic firm. This was before the big political tidal wave.
They went to a good friend of mine who had worked for Majority Leader Mitchell and said, “We need a Republican. Who could we work with?” I didn’t know any of them. They approached me as I was getting ready to leave. It was a great opportunity to start a new firm. I liked the people, and we started it.
After a couple of years it didn’t work as planned. Rob Leonard and I then left with a couple of others and started our own firm called Washington Council, focused on economic policy, tax policy, and budget process—not the political side of lobbying, and we were bipartisan. At that time, that was rare. We built it into one of the biggest policy shops in Washington. EY wanted to strengthen its tax practice and asked me back to run its national tax practice in 2000, so we sold Washington Council to EY. We built it up, sold it, and I did that role for several years.
Alan Fleischmann
Amazing. And you got the name Washington Council—stunning that it wasn’t already taken.
Mark Weinberger
It’s true. It was “Council” with a C‑I‑L, not “counsel” with S‑E‑L, because we weren’t a law firm per se. So: Washington Council.
Alan Fleischmann
And then it came full circle with EY. When you first joined after they absorbed Washington Council, what was your role?
Mark Weinberger
I was Assistant Vice Chair of Tax, then became Vice Chair of Tax in the Americas. I later left to work with President Bush, then came back to be Chairman of Americas Tax, then Global Chairman of Tax, and ultimately Chairman and CEO of the firm.
Alan Fleischmann
If I’m right, you left EY three times and joined four times.
Mark Weinberger
Yes. I joined four times and left three. It used to be, “If you leave us, you’re dead to us,” at EY. When I became Chairman and CEO, that mindset didn’t work. I was a boomerang. We changed it to: “Whenever you join, and however long you stay, it will be an exceptional experience that lasts a lifetime,” and we really changed how we think about alumni.
We realized that with roughly 300,000 people, we had close to a million alumni. We started to recognize the value of engaging alumni, which was another good lesson.
Alan Fleischmann
The culture changed dramatically over the years, especially with you later as leader. In those early years at EY, before you went into the Bush administration, how different was it from what it was at the end? Culturally especially.
Mark Weinberger
A huge difference, and not just at EY. It was a time of major change. We had Sarbanes‑Oxley, audit failures, globalization, and the peace dividend, where suddenly all our clients wanted to work in China and India. We had to build practices around the world.
We moved from an audit‑only firm, as did the others. Of the 100,000 or so people we had then, we did 185 acquisitions in the seven years I was CEO. Most of them, by number, were not in audit—they were blockchain, digital, data, consulting, strategy. That meant managing a culture change as you bring many new people on in a relatively short period.
The firm became more global, more multicultural, and much more balanced across businesses. Audit is still core, but advisory and other services became larger than audit. So the firm changed quite a bit.
Alan Fleischmann
When you left to go to the Bush administration, did you say to yourself, “I’ll be back,” or did you have no idea?
Mark Weinberger
No idea. I didn’t really want to go to the Bush administration at first—not because it wasn’t an awesome opportunity, but I had four children under six. I was finally making decent money. My wife, thankfully, was very encouraging and understood. Paul O’Neill was coming in as Treasury Secretary; it was all brand new.
I had already worked in government, been an entrepreneur, and was finally back in a big firm with a good job. Then they put Dina Powell, who headed the White House personnel office, on me.
Alan Fleischmann
A force of nature—if she wants you, she’ll get you.
Mark Weinberger
Exactly. A month later I was sitting in the Senate Finance Committee room, trying to be confirmed. I heard Secretary O’Neill on the phone, because they wanted me in early to start tax reform, yelling at Senator Jesse Helms, who was holding up my nomination over unrelated agricultural issues.
He hung up saying, essentially, “Then maybe you should come be Secretary of the Treasury,” and slammed the phone down. I thought, “This was a terrible decision for me.” A couple of days later it was resolved, and I was confirmed.
Alan Fleischmann
How long were you in the Bush administration?
Mark Weinberger
I said I would come until we did tax reform, and we got it done much quicker than expected. We got 12 Democrats to join the Republican majority. I worked closely with Senator Baucus, the Democratic chair, and we negotiated a deal. Senator Jeffords was about to leave the Republicans to become an independent, and we had a 50–50 Senate, so it was precarious.
We moved quickly, and by June or July we got the bill done and signed into law. I was ready to leave in six to eight months. Then 9/11 happened. We had to deal with many economic issues and help the country through a tough time. I stayed through the initial post‑9/11 period and left in 2002, so just a couple of years, a bit longer than I had intended.
Alan Fleischmann
And eventually back to EY—what was your job when you first came back?
Mark Weinberger
When I first came back, I was Vice Chair of the Americas and then Chairman of Americas Tax shortly after.
Alan Fleischmann
Tell us about the transition to CEO. When you walked into the CEO’s office, you had a lot of challenges—bringing together partners around the world to understand they were both owners and part of a global enterprise. How did you walk in the door, figure out what you wanted to do, and build the infrastructure and headquarters culture?
Mark Weinberger
That goes back to what I learned in government and from President Bush, as well as earlier experiences. The world was changing dramatically and we were doing well—there was no burning platform. But you could see technology was becoming much more relevant; the rest of the world was becoming more important; we had to expand into different businesses, especially after Sarbanes‑Oxley limited some opportunities.
I had about a year of transition as CEO‑elect. I went and listened—to regulators, clients, people all around the world. That listening tour was extremely helpful. Listening helped me paint a picture of where the world was going and to create a burning platform: we may not have financial issues today, but we can’t be complacent.
I went through the history of Fortune 500 companies that no longer existed after 20 years and why we wouldn’t exist in our current model if we didn’t change. That created a reason to invest massively.
In a partnership, every investment comes directly at the expense of partner earnings. We spent around $2 billion on new technology alone, on top of regular spending. We built out China, went from virtually no one in India to tens of thousands of people in service centers around the world, including India, Portugal, and the Philippines. That was largely borne by the U.S. partnership, because we are a separate partnership in each country. Our earnings went down as we invested. You can imagine bringing people along.
Having that outside‑in focus—knowing our clients, where they were going, and explaining where the world was going—was critical. That’s where I learned the importance of understanding the “why” you need to change, not just the “what”. That helped tremendously to bring people along. As a result, we ended up growing faster than our peers for six years, after not doing so in the prior decade.
We focused on our purpose—“building a better working world.” By that point, about 75 percent of our people were Gen Y and Gen Z. They wanted to do good and do well. We had to find our purpose, put it front and center, and build the case for those investments. A lot of that was going around talking and over‑communicating, then asking for their support.
Alan Fleischmann
You dramatically changed the culture of investing ahead of time, and partners had to take a risk with you and trust you.
Mark Weinberger
And add the fact that, as you can imagine, I joined the firm four times and left three; I wasn’t a CPA after Sarbanes‑Oxley when the firm was principally an audit firm; and I had only run one business, albeit successfully, not an entire area like some other candidates. It was a risk they took on me. I think it was right person, right time. They were looking for a consensus builder to drive change.
Alan Fleischmann
When did you know you had their full support? By the water coolers around the world, I’m sure there were conversations about, “Who is this guy?”
Mark Weinberger
It took years. Nothing helps like results. The fact that we clearly defined our purpose and got people excited, that we didn’t focus on short‑term financials but on long‑term investment, and that we set reachable goals—brand, employer of choice, being number one or two in key markets—mattered.
Over time, I correlated our employee survey results with our performance in parts of the world and showed that what we did for our people mattered most to results, not just chasing short‑term financials. When that started to work, and people saw the data, they got behind it and believed.
You can’t do it yourself; it’s about leveraging your team. I built a team of great people whom others respected and who were very capable in developing the right metrics and approach. When you’re a new leader, your team is most important; you must establish a truly diverse team—cognitive diversity, geographic diversity, people from India and China, different backgrounds and perspectives.
You have to engage your people: some want more money, some more title, some more flexibility. You must understand what drives them, then enable them with technology and resources. The last part, where most people fail, is empowering them while holding them accountable. In a 200,000‑person organization, you have to empower and hold accountable.
Most leaders, when things get tough, pull decisions closer and want to make them all. But your best decisions are made by people on the ground dealing with clients and teams daily. You have to empower them but also hold them accountable; otherwise you get chaos. That balance is critical.
Alan Fleischmann
You also changed the culture from an “I” culture—“my practice, my team”—to a “we” culture focused on the global firm, which is a big mindset change.
Mark Weinberger
Absolutely. You had to help people understand the interdependencies between their short‑term self‑interest and the long‑term interests of the organization—and even their own long‑term interests. That’s constant education and has to be done with authenticity and facts.
The reason I could build a “we” culture is because people knew I didn’t understand every issue, and I was honest about that. I learned from President Bush something really helpful: I was not the guy in the room who gave all the answers. My superpower, if I had one, was asking the right questions. That’s where managers become leaders.
Some great leaders get there by being able to answer all the questions—they’re great at their job, know the P&L, the industry. But as a leader, it’s about influencing others, bringing people along, understanding externalities, and asking the right questions.
I’ll never forget being in President Bush’s office with two strong economic leaders arguing about the best way to get relief to the American people. Many advisors were in the room. There was legitimate disagreement; none of us knew the right answer. President Bush said, “Which one of these approaches will get 51 votes so we can get money out right away?” It cut right through to the essence and changed the course of the debate.
That taught me that having the courage to surround yourself with people smarter than you and asking the “simple” question that seems off‑topic can change everything. As a CEO, I asked a lot of questions, always with a purpose. When someone is asked a question, they think; when they’re told what to do, they just execute. Questions open new pathways and create more IQ in the room. That was a key leadership lesson I took from the administration.
Alan Fleischmann
That’s a powerful lesson. People think they need to walk in with all the answers, when the art of getting to the right answers is asking the right questions. You’re insatiably curious, and you created a culture of listening. A lot of big firms came in with the PowerPoint and said, “Here’s what you need to do,” rather than asking questions and really listening.
Mark Weinberger
Absolutely. One more story that’s really important here: to create that environment, you must build a team that’s willing to say unpopular things. They have to take risks and stand up and say, “I don’t think this is working,” or “Your idea is good, but…”
Early on in government, I was 39 and Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Bush administration. It was my first meeting with President Bush and Vice President Cheney, with about ten economic advisors around. I was told I could listen, but not say anything.
This was when we were doing economic rebate checks. President Bush asked, “When can we get the checks out to the American people?” Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill, former CEO of Alcoa, said, “Mr. President, we can get these checks out in three to six weeks.” The President was ecstatic.
I knew, because it was my responsibility, that it was more like three to six months at a minimum. We hadn’t written checks since the Carter years; there were watermark issues, address issues, fraud prevention, all of that. What do I do?
For some odd reason, I raised my hand. Everyone was thinking, “Who is this guy? Why is he raising his hand?” The President called on me. I said, “The Secretary is absolutely right that we want to get these out in three to six weeks. Here are all the problems we face. It could be six months before we get these checks out.”
Silence. The President leaned back. To this day I swear he winked at me, though I can’t prove it. The Secretary then went on about ways we could speed things up. We left the meeting, and I thought I was going to get chewed out. He didn’t say a word; he didn’t mind that I raised an objection to his answer in front of the President. It didn’t matter that it was my first meeting or that I wasn’t supposed to speak.
Three hours later I got a call from Andy Card, the Chief of Staff. I was scared to death. He said, “The President would like you to sit in on all his economic policy meetings going forward, because he knows you’ll tell him the truth.” That changed everything for me.
I now hugely value people who raise their hand and say, “This is not going to happen the way you think.” I hope others saw that and felt they could do the same. You need that on your team.
Alan Fleischmann
That speaks volumes about you and about President Bush—that he wanted people in the room who would tell the truth and prevent empty promises. You served with President Bush as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury; with President Clinton on the Social Security Advisory Board; with President Obama on the Infrastructure Task Force; and with President Trump on the Strategic and Policy Forum. You’ve had real exposure to different presidents. You just gave a powerful one about President Bush. What’s one takeaway from each?
Mark Weinberger
To become President of the United States is extraordinary. We may agree or disagree with their policies, but they are remarkable people to convince a country they should be its leader. You can learn good and bad from each, just as with any leader.
With President Clinton, his thirst for knowledge and ability to read, comprehend, and be the smartest person in the room stands out. He knew as much or more than people presenting to him. That was a superpower and sometimes a weakness, because he could get in the weeds too much. But that thirst for knowledge is what stuck with me.
With President Obama, it was his ability to speak and persuade and make you feel, as President Clinton also did, like he was talking just to you. Their communication skills were extraordinary. That taught me how important communication is.
With President Trump, many people wouldn’t put his communication style on the same level, but I saw something else. In our advisory council meetings, he would sit for three hours, ask questions, not turn to his staff, and listen intently. Despite what people often hear, he could be persuaded. He ran on labeling China a currency manipulator, but many in the room showed that wasn’t accurate, and you never heard that again. On deregulation, CEOs like Jamie Dimon and Larry Fink talked about the need for rules and guardrails, and you saw him adjust.
His ability to stay engaged across many issues, listen, and change his thinking at times was a kind of superpower. They all had their own way of dealing with issues.
Alan Fleischmann
I’m sure there were also lessons in what not to do—lessons unlearned you later applied as a chief executive.
Mark Weinberger
The one thing I’d say, and this is true of every president and every CEO: it’s very easy to get removed from the information you need to make good decisions. You used to get broad input; now you feel pressure to be quick with answers, you rely on a smaller and smaller circle, and you get disconnected and in a bubble.
In my view, the biggest mistakes in business and in administrations come when leaders stop listening widely. You’ll never have all the information, but you want to hear as much as possible and then make your best decision, rather than having a tight circle convincing you you’re right.
You must always hear the other side and be open to it. Even if it doesn’t change your mind, it changes your empathy for how you may affect others and how you communicate. The biggest mistake is forgetting that you need that bigger team and slipping into a bubble.
Alan Fleischmann
I’ve heard you talk about the four E’s of leadership. Can you break those down and how each builds leadership capacity for someone and their organization?
Mark Weinberger
Earlier I talked about the E’s: Establishing the right team with true diversity, Engaging them by understanding them, Enabling them with tools so they don’t get frustrated, and Empowering them while holding them accountable.
Your other point—capacity—is crucial. The biggest issue leaders have is capacity. How do you deal with the 24‑hour news cycle, external pressures, new competitors, all while running your business in a stakeholder‑heavy environment?
The first way to build capacity is the team and the four E’s. The second is networking. People often see networking as a chore. It’s actually a privilege. By networking I mean:
Inside your organization, across silos and functions, so you understand interdependencies and can do better in your own area.
Outside your organization—industry groups, peers, government, affinity groups.
Networking builds capacity because you leverage others’ knowledge and perspectives.
The third is prioritization. This is hardest. Your inbox is always full. Every time you respond to an email or put out a fire, you’re fixing someone else’s outbox, not working on your own. You must identify the three or four things you want your legacy to be about three to five years from now and make sure they are on your agenda—not left as residual work you’ll get to “someday.”
Those three things—team, networking, and prioritization—create capacity.
Alan Fleischmann
How much of that is the proactive input of the team, so this becomes not just the CEO’s work but your core team’s work?
Mark Weinberger
It has to be the team’s work for two reasons. First, you can never get the job done by yourself; you must influence teams that influence others. Second, I’m a big believer in work–life balance. I’ve always worked to live, not lived to work. That goes back to my father’s advice: never forget who you are and where you came from.
If I want a life outside of work and I’m leading a large organization or in a demanding government job, I’d better leverage my teams. Your role at the dining‑room table is every bit as important as your role at the conference‑room table. I don’t think you’ll be successful at work long term if you’re not successful outside of it. If you define yourself solely by your job, your judgment gets skewed. When you retire as CEO, you may not have an identity if everything was about the title.
So, as you said, you must leverage the team so you can build that outside life and be successful there in order to be successful in business.
Alan Fleischmann
You also emphasize clarity and communication. What advice do you give leaders looking to improve that?
Mark Weinberger
Communication is two‑way. The best communication starts with listening and then speaking.
I gave a lecture at Columbia and was asked, “What would be most different if you were 22 now versus then?” I hadn’t prepared for that. I said, “At 22, I would be trying to impress you with everything I know and tell you why you should hire me or why I’m great. Now, in my 60s, I’m more interested in what you need and want to hear than what I have to say.”
The only way I’ll know that is by understanding who you are, listening to your objectives, and then focusing on addressing your problems, not just telling you what I’m good at. Great leaders do that. They approach situations—even in business contexts—so that someone is “buying,” not being “sold.” When people under you are driving the change, not you pushing it from the top, you’re winning.
The only way you do that is by convincing them why, not just what, you’re doing—why their problem is best addressed by this approach. That happens through interactive communication and empathy.
Alan Fleischmann
You’ve also been an informal and formal coach to CEOs around the world. Are there consistent challenges they face and consistent advice you give?
Mark Weinberger
Yes, very common challenges. One is like the “oxygen mask” rule: you must put on your own mask before helping others. Leaders need to balance and maintain their health and perspective so they can help the organization. In crisis, that often goes out the window; they get tunnel vision.
Second is complacency. After you’ve made big changes and done well, it’s easy not to second‑guess yourself. That’s usually when companies falter. You see it with Xerox, Blockbuster versus Netflix, and many others that didn’t adapt. Industries are converging; your new competitor can come from nowhere at the core of your business. Think of Tesla: more lines of code than Windows, worth more than traditional automakers. Is it a tech company or a car company?
How do you stay on top of that? It goes back to team, networks, and understanding what’s happening outside.
Third is succession planning. You’ll ultimately be remembered less for what you did personally and more for how the organization performs after you. That’s a huge part of the CEO role, and you should think about it from day one.
Alan Fleischmann
Are there traits that great leaders tend to share?
Mark Weinberger
Everyone is different, and different stages of a company’s life need different leaders. But a few things stand out.
First, authenticity. The best leaders are authentic. People may or may not like them, but they lead in a way that’s true to who they are. It is exhausting to be inauthentic—to pretend you know everything or to be someone you’re not. It will burn you out quickly. Authenticity makes sustainable leaders.
Second, team‑building—knowing and understanding good people, what drives them, and keeping them. No one leads because of their title. We all know people who aren’t at the top of the org chart but are leaders among leaders. People follow them because they want to.
Traits like empathy, making others look good, not always thinking about yourself, giving constructive feedback—those are what make you a great leader. You don’t have to be liked as a person, but everyone who works around you should think they’re better off because of you as a leader, not the other way around.
Alan Fleischmann
What advice would you give CEOs leading global organizations right now, with all the geopolitical complexity and divergent stakeholders?
Mark Weinberger
I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but two things are critical.
First, know your purpose—your North Star. Whether you’re adjusting DEI programs because of legal changes or changing how you operate in different countries, nothing should deviate from who you are and your values in creating value. That sounds trite, but the best companies live it.
You must separate signal from noise and look at trend lines, not just headlines. If you responded to every headline, you’d drive your organization crazy and never achieve your long‑term strategy. We know demographics will be a huge issue; we know high public debt will drive policy changes; we know digitization, technology, and AI will change how we operate. You always must have those in mind when making decisions, not just the latest executive order or short‑term threat.
Second, understand what you control, what you can influence, and what you can’t control. You can’t spend all your time on what you can’t control. You need to understand those factors and scenario‑plan more deeply, but spend more time on what you can control.
You can control where and how flexible your inventory is, your cash levels, your capital allocation if rates stay higher longer. You can influence government through engagement and industry groups; explain what you’re doing and why. You can influence your suppliers and your people tremendously. Don’t lose sight of that.
So: spend a lot more time on what you can control. It may not sound as sexy, but it’s really important.
Alan Fleischmann
You also talk about imposter syndrome and helping people realize they are enough and can push through self‑doubt when they take on new roles. How do you help people overcome that?
Mark Weinberger
My life story illustrates it. I ran one of the biggest CPA firms in the world and wasn’t a CPA. I started my own law firm and had never really practiced law. I worked at the highest levels of government for four presidents and don’t have a degree in political science. On paper, none of that made sense.
So I think it’s important to recognize your background and degree do not define you; they enable you to do many different things. I talk to lawyers and CFOs and say: don’t define yourself as “the finance guy” or “the law guy.” If you understand how the business makes money, know how to make decisions, and can run teams, you can be a CEO regardless of background.
On paper, I wasn’t the obvious choice to be CEO of EY, as I explained. That’s why I stress that. Right now I sit on the boards of the largest energy company in the world, a major bank, a healthcare company, and an insurer. Am I an expert in energy, banking, healthcare, or insurance? Absolutely not. Was I scared on day one walking into those boardrooms? Absolutely.
Over time, you realize your role. You’re there for a reason; others have their roles. Together, if you have the right team, you get to the right answers. You must know what you know and what you don’t know, and not pretend. That’s really important.
Alan Fleischmann
The humility of not knowing can be the strength of discovery. You’ve traveled the world, you’re respected everywhere, and yet you’re still that boy from Scranton—curious and interested in people. That’s a great example to others: if you admit you don’t know and want to find out, others will feel safe doing the same.
Mark Weinberger
That’s very kind of you. You’d make my dad proud. I try to never forget who I am and where I came from. It’s also the only way I know how to operate. It’s not a strategy. I don’t think anyone has the capacity to be inauthentic over time; it’s too tiring. You won’t meet your objectives that way.
I wish more people figured that out earlier in their careers so they weren’t always trying to please everyone. That’s why I like doing these conversations, and I appreciate what you do here and with leaders around the world. The more we can help people accelerate their learning curve, the more we pay it forward.
Alan Fleischmann
One last question. You talked about your sisters and your family. You travel a lot now with all the boards you’re on and the many demands on your time. As global CEO of EY, you traveled endlessly. Yet you always made time for family—you have that beach time in the summers, and you focus on the quality, not just the quantity, of time with loved ones. How do you make time for yourself?
Mark Weinberger
It’s not easy, and I don’t pretend I have all the answers. If you ask my wife, she might say I didn’t always get it right. But early on, I realized my energy comes from my family. I’d be miserable if I didn’t make time.
There are certain defining choices. When I first became CEO of EY, I gave a speech in China at a new‑partner event. It was a big moment; everyone was excited. At the end, someone asked, “Are you going to take selfies with us tonight at the Great Wall?” That’s a big deal there.
I said, “I can’t, because I promised my daughter I’d take her for her driving test, and that happens to be tomorrow.” I had to take the red‑eye right after. On that flight home, I worried that people would say, “We picked the wrong guy; he left early.”
I don’t think anything demonstrated our commitment to family values more than that decision—more than any policy or initiative. It went viral internally, and I talk about it a lot now. It gave others permission to make similar choices.
A similar story: my first Davos. All our clients are there, it’s exciting, and it happens once a year. But it was also my daughter’s first day of college. I had to choose. I chose my daughter. We went to Best Buy and did all the move‑in things, and I missed Davos that year. I went to nine other World Economic Forums after that. Looking back, it was the easiest decision, though it didn’t feel like it at the time.
What I’d say is: fast‑forward ten years, look back on the decision you’re facing, and ask what will matter then. That perspective helps you make better choices.
Alan Fleischmann
That’s powerful and a great way to remember what’s most important. It also empowers those around you to step up when you can’t be somewhere. You’ve been listening to Leadership Matters on SiriusXM and at leadershipmattersshow.com. I’m your host, Alan Fleischmann. We’ve just spent the last hour plus with Mark Weinberger, former Global Chairman and CEO of EY, an amazing board member, and a great citizen who has served in public, private, and civil society.
It’s been a fascinating discussion about your early life, your influences—your dad, your mom, your sisters and family—as well as how you learned from and interacted with some of the great leaders in public life. I’m grateful to call you my friend. I learn from you every time I’m with you. Your humility, enthusiasm, curiosity, and commitment to community are remarkable. Thank you for joining us today.
Mark Weinberger
Alan, thank you. Thank you for what you do. You help a lot of CEOs I know get through tough situations. I’m proud to be your friend.
Alan Fleischmann
Same here. Thank you.