Klaus Kleinfeld
CEO, AllergoSan USA
Author, Leading to Thrive: Mastering Strategies for Sustainable Success in Business and Life
Purpose does to energy what a laser does to light…it focuses it and makes it powerful, breaking through anything.
Summary
In this episode of Leadership Matters, Alan Fleischmann is joined by Klaus Kleinfeld — former CEO of Siemens and Alcoa, founding CEO of Saudi Arabia’s NEOM project, and current head of AllergoSan USA. Klaus shares lessons from his remarkable leadership journey across continents and sectors, and dives deep into the insights from his book, Leading to Thrive. Together, they explore why managing energy—not just time—is the key to long-term leadership success, how personal sustainability shapes professional impact, and why practices like mindfulness, sleep hygiene, and purpose-driven living are essential for today’s leaders.
Mentions & Resources
Guest Bio
Dr. Klaus Kleinfeld is an international manager, investor, and entrepreneur. He is the Founder and CEO of K2Elevation, a company that invests in and develops international enterprises in the technology and biotech segment. Currently his portfolio consists of activities in Germany, Austria, and the US. He is Chairman of KONUX and Chairman of FERNRIDE, a member of the supervisory boards of GreyOrange, Fero Labs and NEOM as well as an Advisory Partner at EMH Partners GmbH.
Prior to this, Dr. Kleinfeld was the first CEO of NEOM. He is a member of the NEOM board and advises the Kingdom in matters of economic development. From 2008 to 2017, he served as Chairman and CEO of Alcoa/Arconic. He steered the company through one of the worst commodity crises in its history while building out high-value aerospace, jet engine, and automotive businesses and positioned the company in innovative high-tech sectors, finally allowing the company to be successfully split into Alcoa and Arconic.
Previously, Dr. Kleinfeld had a twenty-year career with Siemens. He became CEO of Siemens AG in early 2005, and successfully led the company through a substantial transformation. Prior to this, he had been President and CEO responsible for the largest Siemens region, the Siemens U.S. Corporation. In this function, he successfully restructured the U.S. operations, and this resulted in a sustainable turnaround. During his tenure at Siemens, Dr. Kleinfeld held various positions in the medical, telecommunication, IT, automation, and power generation businesses. Before Siemens, he worked as a product manager in the pharmaceutical industry in Switzerland. He began his career in consulting.
Dr. Klaus Kleinfeld is an Honorary Senator of the Lindau Nobel Laureates Meeting, an Honorary Trustee of the Brookings Institution, a lifetime member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and a member of the Board of Directors of The Metropolitan Opera. He was appointed advisor to several U.S. Presidents in various roles, was also a member of the Global CEO Advisory Council of Premier Li of the People’s Republic of China, a member of the Mayor of Shanghai’s International Business Leaders Advisory Council, and served as a member of the Foreign Investment Advisory Council to the Prime Minister of Russia, the Chairman of the U.S.-Russia Business Council, and the Board of Trustees of the World Economic Forum. He also served on the boards of the Center of Disease Control, Turner Construction, Bayer, Citibank, Hewlett Packard, and Morgan Stanley. Dr. Kleinfeld was born in Bremen, Germany, and holds both an MBA from the University of Göttingen and a PhD from the University of Würzburg, Germany. He holds a dual citizenship from the USA and Germany and lives in New York.
Transcript
Alan Fleischmann
Today, I’m thrilled to be joined by a global business visionary whose career has spanned continents, industries, and some of the most ambitious projects of our time, Klaus Kleinfeld. From rising through the ranks at Siemens to leading Alcoa through one of the most consequential corporate splits in recent memory, Klaus has never shied away from complexity or from challenges. He’s been at the helm of industrial giants, driven innovation at scale, advised world leaders, and most recently helped launch the U.S. operations of Allergosan, a company at the cutting edge of digestive health, where he currently serves as CEO of Allergosan USA. He’s also the author of Leading to Thrive: Mastering Strategies for Sustainable Success in Business and in Life, which charts a transformative path of preserving and recovering your energy, achieving balance, and finding true purpose and meaning.
In today’s conversation, we’ll talk about his early life in Germany, his career pivots, his philosophy on leadership, and really zero in on the book Leading to Thrive, because we want to take those lessons and share them among our listeners. I urge you all to buy the book. It is worth it. I bought it and shared it with many people, and many thanked me profusely after reading it. I’m excited to dig into the lessons, the stories, and the strategies behind a life devoted to global impact and the many lessons in leadership that you, Klaus, have learned along the way. Welcome to Leadership Matters. It’s such a pleasure to have you on.
Klaus Kleinfeld
Pleasure to be with you. It’s really exciting for me, because I’ve been a friend and admirer from afar. I love the book and I’m glad we’ll get to spend some time on it.
Alan Fleischmann
Let’s start with your early life, just so we have a little context. You were born and raised in Bremen, in what was then West Germany, essentially growing up right outside the Iron Curtain. What were your experiences like growing up there? How did that impact your values and your passions? Maybe tell us a bit about your community and your family. And were there any mentors who stood out in your childhood?
Klaus Kleinfeld
Okay, let’s peel the onion—many questions there. I was born to immigrants from East Germany; both my parents were the only ones in their families who fled to the West, and I grew up in Bremen. When my father died, I was 10. My mother went back to work, and all our relatives were still in East Germany. So my mother decided to send me over to East Germany to stay with relatives during all the school vacations.
Those were very formative experiences. First, I lost my father with basically no close relatives nearby. Second, I spent a lot of time in East Germany with many relatives there—fortunately with a West German passport—but I had to learn how to blend in without being visible as someone “from the other side of the curtain.” It taught me a tremendous amount and, most importantly, it taught me the concept of freedom at a very early age.
I remember coming back to Bremen around age 17, after a summer vacation, and at school we had a discussion about how we felt. I talked about how much I enjoyed freedom—the freedom we had in West Germany—and my classmates looked at me as if I were on something. They asked, “What on earth are you even talking about?” It was visible in my body language how deeply I appreciated it. I said, “Here I can choose what school I want to go to, what I want to study, which university I attend. I can say what I want to say without worrying that someone will come and pick me up in the night and I’ll disappear.”
My classmates simply didn’t understand, and I realized that the concept of freedom is a very odd one—you only fully understand it when it’s taken away from you.
Alan Fleischmann
Yeah, it’s the most precious thing we don’t realize we have.
Klaus Kleinfeld
It’s enormous—absolutely enormous. That experience also created a love for America and a deep appreciation for it from an early age. I understood that Germany’s freedom was rebuilt by many nations coming together and, ultimately, by America joining the Second World War, turning the tide, and driving out the fascist regime. As I learned more history, that appreciation only grew.
Later, it was reinforced by something more personal: the only radio station that played R&B all day, seven days a week, was American Forces Network on AM radio. All the German stations were state-owned and had strict rules; they might play 10% of that kind of music, the rest was German songs. So AFN became another link to America.
I was educated in Germany, studied there, and started my career in international companies. I began in academia, then consulting, then went to Switzerland to work in the pharmaceutical division of Ciba-Geigy, now part of Novartis, which I enjoyed tremendously. Siemens had been a consulting client, and they made me a great offer, so I went to Munich. That started a 20-year career at Siemens. I ended up running Siemens USA and then became CEO worldwide.
After that, I joined Alcoa, came back to New York, and was CEO there for almost 10 years. We split the company into Alcoa and Arconic—an absolutely fascinating experience. After leaving Alcoa, I became the first CEO of NEOM, which was another remarkable chapter.
Today my world falls into three buckets. First is our family company around the probiotic brand Omnibiotic—Allergosan—where the brand is Omnibiotic, which is very important for health. Roughly 80% of the immune system comes from the gut. Second is my investment company, K2 Elevation, which invests in deep tech companies—healthcare, robotics, software, AI—typically two to five years away from the public markets. Third is advisory work, where I do a couple of different things.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that you’ve been pretty busy. Before we jump into other parts of the journey, how different are the various roles you’ve held compared to your role right now? Are you enjoying it the same way? Is this a different kind of CEO-ship?
Klaus Kleinfeld
It’s very different. The title I bear today and the reality of who runs the day-to-day are not the same. The family probiotic business is effectively run by my oldest daughter. She and our partner in Europe asked me to carry the “heavy weight” of the title, but in reality, the work is done by others. So yes, it is very different.
On the broader question of differences across roles and countries, I’ve always worked internationally and enjoyed it. I’ve run large corporations headquartered in the U.S. and in Germany. The most important thing is not the differences but the similarities. At the core, it all comes down to what motivates people, because leadership is about guiding people.
My definition of leadership is: a good leader is someone who can get people to do what you want them to do, at the time you want them to do it. The definition is content-neutral; you can apply it to good or bad purposes, but that’s what leadership is.
The core commonality is respect for people. People everywhere want to be respected. If they feel they are not respected, it’s very hard to motivate them. The symbols of respect or disrespect differ from country to country—there are very particular “no‑go’s” in Asia, the Middle East, here in the U.S., and elsewhere—but underneath that, the foundation is to show genuine respect. That’s the basis for any real connection with people.
Alan Fleischmann
And tell me, have you, without realizing it, been writing a book throughout your life? You’ve been your own leader, you’ve been in the arena through good times and bad. It’s hard to be a CEO; it can be the loneliest job. You’ve seen good leadership and bad leadership, leaders who build a reservoir of strength and sustainability and those who don’t. You’re very focused on health and wellness now, but clearly you’ve also seen where it goes awry. Have you looked at others and thought, “That’s not good leadership,” or, “They’re going to burn out”? Has burnout been part of your journey, and what made you so focused on this?
Klaus Kleinfeld
Totally. I’ve always observed leadership in others, and I’ve made plenty of mistakes myself. I’ve learned a lot from those mistakes and see them as a kind of badge of honor, because they mean I’ve done a lot and tried many things. People who make no mistakes are either dead—or completely lame ducks.
I’ve been very intentional about watching how others do things. I’ve been fortunate to see people I truly admire, and many of them I would call mentors, even if I never formally asked them to be. Some I did ask. I also learned a lot from what I didn’t like in how people led. In hindsight, that was probably my biggest motivation to move through the ranks.
If you had asked me when I was young if I wanted to be a CEO or a leader, I would have said no. I wanted to work on interesting problems and solve them—that’s why I did some academic work. What really motivated me in business was that I couldn’t stand seeing leadership make the wrong decisions when the facts pointed to a different conclusion.
I saw that wrong decisions often came from arrogance—leaders thinking “I’ve done this before,” and ignoring how circumstances had changed. They weren’t listening, didn’t have their ear to the ground, and weren’t connected to what was really going on. I couldn’t bear it. That drove me to move up and say, “Maybe if I’m in the next position, I can make sure decisions are made better—for the many people whose lives and jobs depend on them.”
Alan Fleischmann
Tell us about the people you did admire who became your mentors.
Klaus Kleinfeld
One trait I really admire is courage. That goes back to my early days in East Germany, seeing people stand up for their beliefs despite knowing they would face negative consequences. They had a “true north” and wanted to look in the mirror each morning and feel they stood up for what they believed in. I’ve admired that in many people.
I also admire intelligence—people who look at complex problems and peel the onion, layer by layer. I admire mastery of any craft, whether it’s solving a technical problem or playing tennis. I love tennis, and I love watching and learning from people with true mastery.
All of that led me onto the path you referenced and ultimately to writing the book. Over time I realized I had developed a framework for myself. I’d long been a passionate student of time management, and I came to understand that it’s not really about managing time—it’s about managing your energy.
I saw young people early in their leadership journeys burning out. They were lighting the candle at both ends and did not conceptually understand that being successful in business and in life has to come together, because you are one human being. That realization made me sit down and put my framework on paper. I can only reach so many people directly, but through a book, I could offer a framework more broadly.
That’s why Leading to Thrive is a very different kind of leadership book. It distinguishes between what I call the outer game—how boards work, how you build teams, leadership styles—and the more important inner game: how you operate, what gives you energy, where you get the fuel to operate at your best every day.
The real wake-up call came when I compared business with high-performance sports and elite teams like Navy SEALs. They had already discovered that managing and building energy is fundamental. They know how to build and manage energy so they have as much as possible available and can focus it on their mission—fueling their outer game. That’s the concept I describe in the book.
Alan Fleischmann
I’d love to hear more about that.
Klaus Kleinfeld
Let’s start with energy itself. You sleep at night, wake up in the morning, and hopefully feel rested. During the day, you burn that energy off. It’s really like fuel. So the question is: how do you get fuel?
Sleep gives you fuel, of course, but there are other sources. I describe four sources of energy: physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. The old formula is body, mind, and soul; I split “mind” into emotional and mental.
Physical energy is the one most people understand these days: you’ve got to move your body, work out, sleep enough, hydrate, breathe well, and eat the right things. That’s reasonably well understood.
On the emotional side, many people are lost. If you ask, “How do you manage your emotions?” they’ll say, “There are some people I can’t stand; every time I see this person, my emotions flare up.” I tell them, “You have to realize the emotion is in you. It’s not that someone else ‘creates’ it; you allow the emotion to arise in you in response to that person.” You can train yourself to say, “I’m not allowing this person to control my emotions.” You can treat them as an outside force with an opinion. They may accuse you of something, but you don’t have to allow that to trigger your emotional reaction. Unmanaged emotion drains energy. Love is the most powerful emotion—it can give you energy and also drain it. I handle that in the book as well, which is unusual for a leadership book.
On the mental side, it’s about focus. I often tell the story of the old shoemaker with two sons. He wants to pass on the business but doesn’t know which son should get it. He sends each son to a different part of Africa. The first son sends a telegram: “Father, bad news. There is no market here. Everyone is running barefoot.” The second son sends: “Father, amazing place. Send me as many shoes as you can. The market is endless—everyone is barefoot.” It’s a clear example of how focus and mindset shape reality—what do you choose to see?
The fourth source is spiritual. That’s about whether you believe in some higher power you can tap into during dark times. I’ve seen dark times, starting early in life, and this spiritual dimension has helped me greatly. It is an enormous source of strength in all situations.
Beyond the four sources, there is a fifth element: purpose. Purpose is as old a concept as humanity itself; many people have thought about it. I always struggled with it, so in the book I use some space to summarize what others have said about purpose and to offer readers a menu of options. The cool thing is that purpose does to energy what a laser does to light. Light is diffuse; a laser focuses it and makes it powerful enough to cut through metal. Purpose focuses your energy.
You recognize this in your own life. If you know there is one thing you want to achieve, and the alarm clock rings at five in the morning, your reaction is very different when you’re clear about your purpose. If you know, “Today I move closer to my goal,” you get out of bed with a spring in your step, ready to attack the day. If you don’t have that clarity, you think, “Maybe I shouldn’t get up yet,” hit the snooze button, and your energy is scattered.
So I recommend using this energy and purpose framework to look at life. It’s important not just for business performance, but for all performance, including your private life. If you don’t have energy, you won’t be successful in your private life either.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. It’s the most important thing nobody talks about. You may be the first CEO I’ve heard really talk about it. Without energy, you can’t be creative, responsive, or reactive. More importantly, you can’t be proactive or preemptive. All of that takes energy, and as you say, much of that energy can be preserved by not letting certain things drag you down and by learning how to recharge.
Klaus Kleinfeld
Exactly—recharging is crucial. Many people think that if they take a little time to look out the window or take a short break, it’s “not productive.” Recharging is productive time.
When I thought about time management, I used to think life was like an ultramarathon: you just run and run and run, like a hamster wheel. But I now believe a better model is a series of sprints and recharge periods. The recharge period doesn’t have to be as long as the sprint. Take tennis as an example: a serve can only take 20 seconds, but all top players have a routine before they serve. They do something with the balls or their racket that resets them mentally and physically. When they turn around for the next point, they are fully reset, regardless of whether it’s match point or the first point.
You can learn similar micro-habits. Sit behind your desk, do some breathing exercises, and just focus on your breath. If we did it right now—just focusing on your breath—you’d immediately feel the weight of the world fall off your shoulders. You’d feel human again.
Alan Fleischmann
It’s like investing a few seconds to get many hours back.
Klaus Kleinfeld
Totally—a wonderful way to say it.
Alan Fleischmann
I love this idea of the inner game versus the outer game. We live in a culture, especially in America, where people used to be proud of sleepless nights and crazy travel. You’d brag about all the things you did that actually undermined your inner game, which then weakens your outer game. If you’re going to be resilient and effective, you have to lead a purpose‑driven life and give yourself the holistic well‑being you’re talking about. I love the idea that energy management is more important than time management. I’ve always believed energy is everything. People don’t realize how important it is until they don’t have any.
Klaus Kleinfeld
There are many small practices that help. One of my friends works in a Hong Kong high‑rise. When he feels overwhelmed, he gets up, leaves his phone with his assistant, takes the elevator down, walks around the block a few times, and comes back. It takes no more than 10 minutes, and he feels reconnected.
You mentioned feeling overwhelmed. A great mental practice is compartmentalization—particularly important for your private life. We all have different roles, and if you bring your business worries to the family dinner table, it usually doesn’t end well. So you learn to say, “Now I’m at dinner with my kids, family, or friends. For the next 90 minutes, this is another world.” After that, you can go back to whatever needs attention.
I smile when I hear people say, “I just need to do this one more thing; it’s absolutely essential.” There are rare moments when that’s true, but they are very rare. In most cases, people mistakenly believe that this “one more thing” must be done right now. If you’re not careful, that mindset takes over your life, and soon you have no life outside of work.
Alan Fleischmann
You don’t realize how limited your time is until it hits you—like when you read books that calculate how many weeks or summers you may have left. If you’ve lost loved ones who died young, you become more aware of mortality and more appreciative of those “summer moments.”
Klaus Kleinfeld
I completely agree. In the book, I have a chapter about what we learn from the dying. There’s not a vast amount of research, but there is some on what people regret most on their deathbed. They regret things like, “I wish I had allowed myself to be happier,” and “I wish I had been more myself and not just lived according to others’ expectations.”
We humans know we’re going to die, but we behave as though we’re not. We say, “If we don’t do this today, we’ll do it tomorrow,” or “If we can’t take this vacation this year, we’ll take it in two years.” It’s important to anchor yourself: Who are you? What do you want to be? How do you connect your private and business worlds?
All of this is about performance, by the way. I’m not coming from a “feel good” angle. I’m coming from a performance angle. You can decide to spend your life on the beach with friends; that’s fine, but you still need energy. Otherwise, you may end up as an unhappy drunk who feels empty and says, “I had no life.”
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. Talk a bit about mindfulness and some of the practices you suggest. People don’t realize how stressed they are by the buzzing of their phones, the endless to‑do lists, and the constant flow of emails and texts. How do you create perspective? What practices do you recommend—mindfulness, meditation, or others?
Klaus Kleinfeld
Meditation is powerful—everyone will tell you that. When I went to university at 18, I tried meditation because I’d heard so many good things about it. I was very frustrated at first. Fortunately I had a professor who taught me autogenic training, a self‑hypnosis technique developed by Dr. Schultz in the 1920s. It’s similar to what people now call a “body scan” meditation: you lie down and concentrate on different body parts. It’s great, but it takes time to learn, and the learning curve turns many people off.
The simplest and easiest practice to learn is breathing. Sit down with your hands on the table, feet on the ground, and just concentrate on the wave of your breath—your diaphragm rising and falling, your chest expanding and contracting. You can do this in any meeting. If you feel annoyed, about to explode, or totally drained, try it. No one will notice.
If you want to deepen it, you can count your breaths. There’s a technique called box breathing, used by many high-performance individuals: inhale for four counts, hold for four, exhale for four, hold for four.
Alan Fleischmann
And are you breathing through your nose or mouth?
Klaus Kleinfeld
You can do both, but in a meeting, nose breathing is probably better and has some added advantages. When you’re alone, start with whatever feels comfortable. In a meeting, you can simply lean back a little, keep your eyes open, and focus on your breath. In Japan, you’re even allowed to close your eyes in meetings—which I love.
If you want to go further, you can use visualization and neurolinguistic programming. That’s what many tennis players do—they learn an “anchor.” The ball ritual, for example, becomes an anchor to their best moments in their career. It brings them back to the same physical and mental state in under 20 seconds. Everyone can learn something similar.
We describe some of these practices and additional references in the book.
Journaling is another powerful practice. I have to admit, I don’t do it consistently. I tried it but didn’t enjoy it enough at the time. In hindsight, I regret not doing it more, because I wish I had captured more experiences and thoughts. I used to compromise journaling in favor of sleep. My evening routine is to wind down—avoid the computer, read a bit, or listen to audiobooks. I read so much during the day that I prefer to close my eyes and listen for 15–30 minutes before calling it a day.
On the sleep side, there are many “hacks” people don’t realize. You want to blackout every light; even small light sources can disrupt sleep. A good sleep mask that allows eye movement without pressure is very helpful. If there’s noise, use a sound machine. Much like with babies, you want a dark, cool environment. Keep the room cool and use a warm blanket if you like warmth. That’s a good recipe for restful sleep.
Alan Fleischmann
Have you always been a good sleeper?
Klaus Kleinfeld
Yes, generally, and life forced me to be. I’ve traveled internationally so much that I had to use that time to recharge. I have a rigorous travel practice: I always bring my sleep mask and a hoodie. As soon as the plane takes off, I set my watch to the destination time zone and try to behave as though I’m already there. I try not to drink alcohol on planes and instead drink water. I say “try” because I wasn’t always this disciplined, and I didn’t always have this concept in my life.
People who worked with me in earlier days would rightly say, “What is Klaus talking about?” I drove people into late-night meetings until we solved things, only to realize the next morning—after some sleep—that the solution we had agreed on wasn’t the best. That’s one of the things I learned and changed over time.
Alan Fleischmann
As times have changed, have your practices changed? There was a time when people believed they could live a certain way, even if it wasn’t healthy.
Klaus Kleinfeld
Yes, absolutely. One wake-up moment was realizing that this wasn’t just about my generation, particularly the post‑war generation who watched their parents work incredibly hard to rebuild a destroyed country. I literally played in ruins as a child and saw everything being physically rebuilt. You feel an obligation not to slow down. I had my first paid job at 12.
What shocked me was seeing similar patterns in younger generations. I joined the board of a company founded by someone in his early 30s, a founder I liked a lot. The day before a board meeting, his co‑founder called and said, “We just found him unconscious in the hallway.” No one knew if he’d survive. He was in the hospital and they wouldn’t let anyone talk to him.
We later learned he’d been in the middle of a successful capital raise. He had a cold, didn’t take it seriously, probably took some over‑the‑counter remedies, and the infection inflamed his heart. An inflamed heart can suddenly stop, sometimes permanently.
I saw two more similar cases in younger founders. That was a shock. It made me realize the younger generation needs the same wake‑up call we did. The underlying beliefs are similar—wearing sleep deprivation as a badge of honor. People brag, “I can get by on three hours of sleep.” I see the same thing in today’s founder circles.
If you want to perform sustainably—in business and in life—it’s about energy and purpose. Those are the two drivers you have to manage.
Alan Fleischmann
Do you find this focus on energy and purpose is also a way to stay youthful longer? To do what you’re suggesting, you need an insatiable curiosity for the unknown and enough confidence to lower your stress. All of that, plus humility, gratitude, and curiosity, probably keeps you younger.
Klaus Kleinfeld
I fully agree. The mental stimulation is huge. I love working with younger founders and seeing the problems they face—many of which you recognize from your own experience. Helping them reach solutions faster keeps you agile.
I’m not sure it’s a universal recipe, but for me it’s definitely a way to stay mentally young and enjoy life more.
Alan Fleischmann
Do you still travel as much as you used to, or do you travel less?
Klaus Kleinfeld
I don’t mind traveling; for me it’s mostly international. I always say I’m a collector of people. I have a passion for people, enjoy living in different cultures, having friends in different cultures, and learning from their perspectives. I don’t think I’d be as happy without that. Sometimes it becomes stressful, though.
During COVID, I took on a couple of assignments because everything was on Zoom. When the world reopened, things changed quickly. Suddenly last year I found myself in a situation where everyone said, “No, no, we’re not doing this virtually; we’ll do it in person.” That created a few stressful periods. This year so far has been better.
Alan Fleischmann
Do you find that making a point to take vacations is helpful?
Klaus Kleinfeld
That’s a difficult one. As I said, I think life is a series of sprints and rest periods. I remember the days before the internet when, on vacation, you’d get shipments of papers you were “supposed” to review. I also vividly remember one vacation where I didn’t do any of it. I came back after only two weeks and realized I now had to work through a giant backlog. If I had spent just 15–20 minutes on a call here or there, things might have gone differently.
My approach now is to define a vacation period while still blocking a small window early in the morning. I usually block it early enough that the family doesn’t notice. During that time, I handle urgent calls or decisions. After that, the rest of the day is blocked for vacation. That gives me more peace of mind.
Alan Fleischmann
So the morning time is for work; the rest is for family and yourself?
Klaus Kleinfeld
Exactly. My morning time on vacation is for the office—if there are urgent calls or things to address, they happen then. After that, I compartmentalize: I’m “out,” focused on being present with family or friends.
Alan Fleischmann
How do you deal with technology? Do you have “Sabbaths” from it, or particular rules?
Klaus Kleinfeld
Not really. I see technology as an enabler. I know myself well enough to avoid certain things; for example, I don’t play video games because I’d likely get addicted. But I’m not addicted to my phone or computer.
During the week, I work behind my desk or in an office environment. On weekends, I might scan my emails once in a while, but if it’s not urgent, I don’t engage. Another thing I’ve done to de‑stress is to have one office in the U.S. and one in Europe. I was getting so much incoming communication overnight from other time zones that it became overwhelming, especially during COVID. Now my European office has access to those channels and pre‑structures or even handles urgent items before I wake up. When I get up, things are already sorted, and I can have a focused call to align on what matters.
That has greatly improved my quality of life and made response times faster and less stressful.
Alan Fleischmann
What’s your best way to de‑stress? Is it breathing?
Klaus Kleinfeld
I love good music. I’m very eclectic—I love R&B, but I also love opera. Just last week, I went to the Blue Note in New York, a historic place, to see José James, whom I admire—his mix of neo‑soul and jazz is fantastic. At the same time, I enjoy a great opera, a symphony, or a string quartet. Music is a major source of relaxation.
The other big one is exercising outdoors. Now that summer is coming, we have nice tennis courts nearby, and I love being out in the fresh air. In winter, I don’t like being outdoors as much, so we play platform tennis, which is still outdoors but more manageable in the cold. I like being outside.
On weekends, a walk in the forest with our dog is one of the best ways to recharge. Fresh air in the morning, watching the dog run—that gives me great energy and is a wonderful way to start the day.
Alan Fleischmann
What kind of dog?
Klaus Kleinfeld
We have a Vizsla. It’s a beautiful dog. I love dogs, and there’s something magical about seeing the world through a dog’s eyes. The dog is always happy, tail wagging. Dogs are probably the beings closest to humans emotionally, and they bring a lot of joy and structure. The dog needs to be walked early in the morning, even if the weather is terrible. My mother used to say, “There’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing,” which is consistent with where I grew up in northern Germany, where it rains nine months out of the year.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. Tell us a bit more about Allergosan USA, and then about Constellation and K2 Elevation. Do those still exist?
Klaus Kleinfeld
Constellation exists, but we sold it to a private equity fund, especially when the SPAC market was going crazy. K2 Elevation is my investment company, still very much under my control.
Allergosan is the “mothership” behind Omnibiotic. Omnibiotic is a line of scientifically proven, targeted probiotics. I’m a big fan of natural healing. My experience in the pharmaceutical industry and personal experiences with our children shaped that. Both of my daughters had Lyme disease and are fortunately healed now.
We spend time on Nantucket and Martha’s Vineyard in the summer, which are among the most tick-infested areas in the U.S., possibly the world. Lyme disease is not easy to diagnose early and not easy to treat, but it’s doable. That experience showed me how extremely important it is to take care of your gut.
The most prominent way to treat Lyme is with antibiotics, often multiple. Most antibiotics are broad‑spectrum and destroy much of your microbiome. The human system is built as a symbiosis between bacteria and our own cells. We carry more bacterial DNA than human DNA, and most of that activity is in the gut. If your gut microbiome is unhealthy, your whole body is unhealthy.
I smile when people say, “I eat healthy, but I still have health issues.” If your gut isn’t healthy, whatever you eat doesn’t get properly digested or broken down into nutrients. The starting point is getting your gut in shape.
After leaving Europe, I built a doctor team there and visited at least once a year. They gave me Omnibiotic, and I realized how much it strengthened me. Then I noticed that whenever I brought it back to the U.S., it disappeared—my family was stealing it from me. When my daughters became ill, they rebuilt their bodies in part through Omnibiotic.
I partnered with Allergosan and brought the product to the U.S. because the domestic market lacked truly high‑quality probiotics. We ran our product through an artificial gut system, side by side with the top 10 U.S. probiotics, and saw that about 85% of our bacteria arrived alive after passing through the highly acidic stomach. For competing products, it was around 15%. That’s why many don’t work well.
Our products are also targeted and differentiated. We have a product for the gut‑brain axis called Stress Release, which supports mental resilience. We have a product for people my age called Hetox, which supports liver function and detoxification. We have a product for babies and for those undergoing antibiotic treatments, called AB10.
You can find Omnibiotic at omnibioticlife.com and on Amazon. The customer reviews are probably our best sales force.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that, especially that your kids were taking it from you because it worked for them—and now they’re leading the business.
Klaus Kleinfeld
Exactly. They are running the show now. I wouldn’t have had time to build the U.S. business if they hadn’t had the experience and interest. They are both very savvy in business, and I’m very happy about that.
Alan Fleischmann
How many kids do you have, and how many are in the business?
Klaus Kleinfeld
We have three daughters; two are in the business.
Alan Fleischmann
I’m the father of two daughters. I think that’s the best.
Klaus Kleinfeld
Agreed.
Alan Fleischmann
As we’re wrapping up—though we clearly need more than an hour—what question haven’t I asked that I should have?
Klaus Kleinfeld
I think we’ve covered most of the inner game. On the outer game, the recurring question is, “How do I build a great team?” In my view, the most important thing in business is people. People are the only truly sustainable competitive advantage. If you have great people working well together as a team, you have something powerful.
To build a great team, there are at least five key elements. First, you must build trust among team members. Second, the team has to be capable of dealing with conflict. You need a brutal feedback culture—brutal in the sense of honest and focused on performance, not on personal attacks.
Third, you need commitment. People must be committed to the team and its goals. Fourth, you need accountability. When people make mistakes, they must admit them, learn, and commit not to repeat them.
Fifth, everyone has to be aligned on what “winning” looks like. It’s amazing how often CEOs complain, “My team is not aligned,” but when you ask, “If I talked to your top ten leaders, would they all describe winning the same way you do?” they know the answer is no. They haven’t been specific. Is winning about cash, EBITDA, growth, capital efficiency, market share? You must be crystal clear.
Think of a Navy SEAL mission where the objective is to capture or eliminate a specific target like Osama bin Laden. If someone on that team said, “For me, winning is taking a few nice pictures and interviewing him about his family,” they wouldn’t last long. The mission has to be clear, and everyone has to be brutally accountable and trusting of each other, because their lives depend on it. In business, the stakes are different, but the principles for a top-performing team are similar.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. At the end of the day, how do you become indispensable, and how do you create a team that feels indispensable? That trust and consistency build everything.
Klaus Kleinfeld
It’s also one of the most rewarding things in business life. I’ve had the pleasure of working with and building some top-performing teams and creating friendships that last forever. I recently met with some former colleagues in Europe whom I hadn’t seen in more than 15 years. We had an incredibly enjoyable evening. When you’ve gone through intense experiences together, it bonds you.
Alan Fleischmann
One of our mutual friends is Daniel, who has been a long‑time associate of yours in different roles. He remains one of your most loyal people. I love that dynamic between you and your people.
Klaus Kleinfeld
I like it too and enjoy those long-term relationships.
Alan Fleischmann
You’ve been listening to Leadership Matters on SiriusXM and at leadershipmattersshow.com. I’m your host, Alan Fleischmann. We’ve just spent the last hour with an extraordinary leader and multiple‑time CEO, Klaus Kleinfeld, now CEO of Allergosan USA. We’ve been discussing not only his remarkable career, but also his book Leading to Thrive: Mastering Strategies for Sustainable Success in Business and Life, and his ideas about what you need to do internally and externally to be an effective and sustainable leader—how to preserve and conserve your purpose, and how to preserve, conserve, and apply your energy in the right way. There’s a lot to learn here, and I’m very grateful to you, Klaus, for your example. We need to be shown by example to know where to go and how to get there. Thank you so much.
Klaus Kleinfeld
Real pleasure, as always. I enjoy being with you—it’s really enjoyable.