Angela F. Williams
President and CEO, United Way Worldwide
When it comes to United Way, we are truly a beacon of lighting communities.We always say that we are there before a disaster happens, during the disaster, and long after. We consider ourselves to be neighbors helping neighbors.
Summary
In this episode of Leadership Matters, host Alan Fleischmann sits down with Angela F. Williams, President and CEO of United Way Worldwide and co-author of Navigating the Age of Chaos: A Sense-Making Guide to a BANI World That Doesn’t Make Sense. From her roots in South Carolina during the civil rights era to her trailblazing career across the military, law and nonprofit leadership, Angela shares lessons on faith, resilience and leading through complexity. She discusses her groundbreaking work at United Way Worldwide, the power of community connection, and the ideas behind her new book’s “BANI” framework, which can help leaders find clarity and courage in a chaotic world.
Mentions & Resources
Navigating the Age of Chaos: A Sense-Making Guide to a BANI World That Doesn’t Make Sense – by Angela F. Williams, Jamais Cascio, and Bob Johansen
Guest Bio
Angela F. Williams is President and CEO of United Way Worldwide (UWW). With more than 30 years of leadership experience in the nonprofit and corporate sectors, Angela brings her innovative vision and a long history of purpose-driven work to her role at United Way Worldwide.
Angela is bi-vocational; serving as an ordained minister, attorney, and civil society executive. She jointly integrates her faith and professional expertise into many aspects of her community impact work and cites her faith as a source of optimism and belief that everyone deserves to live in thriving communities.
In recognition of her bold leadership and impact, Angela was named a 2025 USA Today Woman of the Year, a national distinction celebrating women who have made significant contributions to their communities and industries by breaking barriers and uplifting others.
Angela has also been featured in the NonProfit Times’ Power and Influence Top 50 list from 2022-2024, the Forbes’ 2021 List of Women Over 50 Creating Social Change at Scale, Inside Philanthropy’s List of the 50 Most Powerful Women in U.S. Philanthropy, and Virginia Business’ Virginia 500 Power List of Prominent Leaders for Nonprofits/Philanthropy. She is also the recipient of a 2021 CEO Today Healthcare Award.
Before joining United Way, Angela was President and CEO of Easterseals, the nation’s leading nonprofit provider of life-changing disability services. She also served on active duty in the U.S. Air Force Judge Advocate General’s Corps for more than six years; led as an Executive Vice President, General Counsel, and Chief Administration Officer at YMCA of the USA; served as an interfaith liaison for the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund; was special counsel on criminal law for Sen. Edward M. Kennedy on the Senate Judiciary Committee staff; and worked as a prosecutor on the DOJ Civil Rights Division’s National Church Arson Task Force and as an Assistant U.S. Attorney.
Angela earned a bachelor’s degree in American Government from the University of Virginia, a Juris Doctor from the University of Texas School of Law, and a Master of Divinity cum laude from the Samuel DeWitt Proctor School of Theology, Virginia Union University.
Episode Transcript
Alan Fleischmann
Welcome to Leadership Matters on SiriusXM and at leadershipmattersshow.com. I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann.
Today, I am honored to be joined by Angela F. Williams, the President and CEO of United Way Worldwide. Angela is the first African American woman to lead the organization in its nearly 140 year history. Angela is multi-vocational as a pastor. Her career has also spanned the military, law, public service and the nonprofit sector, from her early days as a Judge Advocate General in the United States Air Force, to her work at the Department of Justice on hate crime investigations, to leading Easter Seals as CEO, and now at the helm of United Way Worldwide. She's building a remarkable record of service, empathy and impact.
She's also the co-author of a new book, Navigating the Age of Chaos, written with futurists Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio. The book is a timely guide for leaders trying to make sense of a world that often feels, as she puts it: brittle, anxious, non linear and incomprehensible.
Angela also has been featured in the 2022 and 2024 editions of the Nonprofit Times, Power and Influence Top 50 list, the Forbes 2021 list of Women over 50 Creating Social Change at Scale, and Inside Philanthropies list of the 50 Most Powerful Women in the United States and in Philanthropy. She was also named one of the 2025 Most Powerful Women in Washington by the Washingtonian.
Today, we'll explore Angela's journey from her roots in South Carolina to her leadership on the global stage, and the lessons she's learned along the way about faith, courage and leading through complexity. There is nobody on the planet that I think has a more diverse and much needed background to take on the big challenges of our time and one of the most influential organizations of our time, than Angela Williams.
Angela, welcome to Leadership Matters. It is such a pleasure to have you on.
Angela F. Williams
Thank you, Alan. It is a pleasure to be here with you. I admire you so much, and it's a privilege to join you today.
Alan Fleischmann
I want to make sure I get the names right of your co authors of the book, because I didn't do it well. It's Bob Johansen, and it's Jamais Cascio, right?
Angela F. Williams
Jamais Cascio.
Alan Fleischmann
Got it, Cascio. I knew I'd get it wrong, and I did, but now I got it better.
Okay, let's talk a little bit about your background and kind of the foundation that became you. You know, I know how close you are to your parents and family means so much to you. So I'd love to get back to South Carolina. It's Anderson, South Carolina, where you were born, and tell us a little bit of what life was like in Anderson, South Carolina. There wsa immense social and political change during that period. How did that environment express itself to you? How did it shape your view? What was your family like? And tell us a little bit of the dynamics at home.
Angela F. Williams
So Alan, in that question, you're asking me, okay, what year were you born? How old are you? I'm going to phrase it in my response more generally, but to say that I was born during the Civil Rights era in the 1960s. My dad was pastor of Royal Baptist Church, and he and my mom, together,were very much activists in the Civil Rights movement. And even before moving to Anderson, South Carolina, where I was born, my dad worked in Columbia, South Carolina, where he and my mom met. During that time, he pastored churches. He was very much active in the civil rights movement. He was the head of the Columbia chapter of the NAACP. And everything that you read about in history books, whether it was the peaceful demonstration of all of those young men and women who worked alongside Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and others, and preached non violence and and really motivated other young people, as well as seniors in the African American community, white community, Jewish community, to come together to say, we want an equitable society where everyone is treated fairly and has access to the same right. So that was the era that I was born in, and the parents that I was born to.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that and how, again, obviously, just by the very fact of your father and his leadership, faith was a big part of your growing up from day one.
Angela F. Williams
Oh, it is, and it still is a big part of who I am.
Alan Fleischmann
And how many brothers and sisters?
Angela F. Williams
I am the – okay, Alan, you keep asking these demographic questions. So I am the oldest of three. And yeah, so when we were in Anderson, South Carolina, at that time, my brother and I had three years apart, but my dad and mom made a life-changing decision, and that is to join the Navy. And so my dad was the third Black chaplain in the history of the United States Navy, and so in the late 60s, he went on active duty, and we moved from South Carolina to San Diego.
Alan Fleischmann
Wow. So that became a big part of your life. Did you actually stay connected to South Carolina, even though you moved to California?
Angela F. Williams
I am very much still a daughter of South Carolina. My mom and dad left really significant footprints in South Carolina. We still have our family farm in McCormick County, South Carolina. One of the special things going back in history was just after slavery ended on my mom's side of the family, they ended up with land, and we're land owners, and so we still have the land from back then that is part of our family history and legacy.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. And so every once in a while, you go back?
Angela F. Williams
I sure do.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. You know, pure. I mean, I would imagine along the way the moves, having such spiritual conviction at home, social justice conviction at home, your parents served as great mentors. I know for you what I think about you as a leader today, with other mentors along the way, were there other teachers and others who kind of inspired you, who saw the light and the bright light that is you, and nourished it or encouraged it?
Angela F. Williams
So when I think about mentors, there were those that knew they were my mentor, and there were those who never met me, but they were my mentor and I was just so enthralled with their pathway. And so let me talk about the ones that didn't know about me, but I watched them, like Shirley Chisholm and Barbara Jordan.
Those were women who did phenomenal things, or other folks like Colin Powell, because, you know, I served on active duty in the Air Force for six and a half years as a lawyer. And even the Tuskegee Airmen, I used to study them in history and say, "Wow, in the face of adversity, look what they accomplished," and I can tell you about how I was instrumental in changing the names of one of the streets on Boeing Air Force Base in Washington, DC, to name it after General Chappie James, the first African American, four star general.
And so in the Air Force, it's just those are the mentors from a distance, but I also had mentors up close and personal. I think about my, I think she was my third or fourth grade teacher who, when we moved to San Diego, recognized that I was being picked on by the other kids, and yet, because, you know, very few Black kids in my school, and she also knew of my intellectual and academic capacity, and would take me home, sometimes on weekends, and just pour into me and speak words of positivity.
And then on the spiritual side of things, I'm an ordained minister, and there were great theologians and great pastors and preachers that I would listen to and watch, and they took me on. And in an era in the Baptist tradition where I was ordained, it was hard because you didn't see that many women ordained as ministers. And there were great preachers, and the dean of my seminary that made sure to say, Angela, we want to cultivate your gift. We know that God has called you into ministry. And they shepherded me along the way to go through the theological process and to be later ordained.
And then I have one of my other mentors, Imelda. She's a Panamanian. Met her when I was in the military, and her husband was in the military at Andrews Air Force Base, and she really spent that one on one time, spiritual mentoring to me. So all of that to say I have a range of mentors. And then I didn't even talk about the ones in the legal profession.
Alan Fleischmann
Are there a couple form the legal profession?
Angela F. Williams
So I used to study Thurgood Marshall, because, you know, again, he's such a great part of our history. And my dad used to work with Thurgood Marshall, because when he was head of the Columbia NAACP, South Carolina NAACP, he would go out into the field and record incidents that were happening and send his field notes to Thurgood Marshall. And again, I didn't even know that until most recently, in talking to my dad just before he died in June of 2025 and then, of course, just all of the great legal scholars that that preceded me.
Constance Baker, and I'm saying her name wrong, but just so many others that were breaking glass ceilings, or Sandra Day O'Connor, again, knowing her from a distance, but watching her pathway to the Supreme Court. And just so many others, it was just wonderful. And lastly, I have to say this, and I'll stop talking; Senator Edward M Kennedy. Yes, I used to work for Senator Kennedy on his Senate Judiciary Committee staff. I loved that man, and he was such a wonderful soul, a person that, yes, he may have had a label of being a Democrat, but yet he was truly a person that, in his very core, cared about every human being and was willing to foster relationships with people that were maybe politically diametrically opposed to him, but yet he had those relationships, and so being in his midst, being able to work with him and to work write his speeches, was an honor, and I learned so much from him.
Alan Fleischmann
And he really loved, you know, the American experiment, and loved the Senate, and worked there in the Senate with him, and he, you know, he was devoted into doing things, and I think that's something we long for. Those who, you know, have a big plate, not a small plate.
Tell us a little bit about the trajectory from education too, like you know, when you graduated from high school, for example, where did you go from there? And then what did you do? Where did you study? And then a little bit of the early career. Did you know what you wanted to do?
Angela F. Williams
So I'm going to go back to the little girl for a second in Anderson, South Carolina, because if you had asked me then, “Angela, who do you want to be, or what do you want to do when you grow up?” My answer was, I want to be president. I wanted to be a nun, and so I am currently doing both.
And I will tell you why I am President of United Way Worldwide, which is an honor and a privilege. And being as far as being a nun, in my young mind, the only women examples of women in ministry was Sally Field in The Flying Nun TV show. So that was my orientation to women in ministry. So now I can fast forward to say I'm not a nun, but I'm still serving in ministry.
So the other thing, though, was starting at age six, I started learning music and picking up musical instruments, and my parents would always indulge me when I said, I want to play another one and another one. So by the time I was a senior in high school in Northern Virginia, I played eight instruments, but my two performance instruments were the piano and the violin, and I was good enough to actually be invited by one of the music conservatories to come and actually be a music major. But at the same time, I knew I wanted to be president and an advocate for people. So that was, how do I support the underdog, which is what my parents did, and that meant being a lawyer. So I always knew I wanted to be a lawyer as well. And when you're in senior in high school, you're applying for colleges and universities, and I had to decide, was I going to go to the music conservatory? And be a performing artist for piano and violin, or was I going to go to college and then on to law school?
Well, it was a tough decision. In my senior year, I was really actually depressed because I made the decision to move away from music professionally, to go to the University of Virginia, undergrad, and where I was an Air Force ROTC scholarship recipient, graduated, was commissioned, and the Air Force graced me with the opportunity to go on to law school as a second lieutenant in the Air Force, where I went to the University of Texas law school.
Alan Fleischmann
That's so cool. And did you love it?
Angela F. Williams
I loved law school. The lesson for me, though, was, wow, this is challenging, because thinking as a lawyer is very unique and different, and I had never been exposed to lawyers, and so I didn't grow up around a kitchen table with lawyers that would talk about their cases or their clients, and it took my first year of law school to really get a hold of it. Whereas a lot of my classmates had parents that were lawyers or were in environments where they were exposed to lawyers. So in a lot of ways, they had the heads up on how to think, how to dissect cases, etc. But never fear, graduated and came on active duty as an Air Force Judge Advocate General, or lawyer for short.
Alan Fleischmann
That's when I think I'm always proud as someone who just loves your leadership, to know that your career and your sense of service began as a Judge Advocate General in the Air Force. Tell us a little bit of what that entails. So those who don't know, but it really is, from what I can tell, one of the most extraordinary combinations of service, law and leadership and under pressure. I think we should explain a little bit what that job entails. And how did that teach you about, you know, the courage to overcome pressure or to not accept it, but to excel within it. And, you know, you always talk about accountability and responsibility. I think those were tested then as well.
Angela F. Williams
Yes, you know, I would say approximately 30 years of my life were spent on military bases and working with the military. And the military was a culture that groomed leaders, required discipline, required focus and required an understanding that in the event of war, you understood clearly what your target was, and you also understood clearly that everyone had their MOS or their job that they had to fulfill, and that we all had to work together as a team, and that there's no war that is going to be won if the planes weren't fueled, or if the parachutes weren't packed, or if there was no gas in the vehicles, or there was no security police, or if the commissary did not have food, or if the there were the cooks did not have what they need to prepare meals for the troops at the end of the day. Each of us had our own special responsibility, and we had to deliver.
With respect to being a JAG our Judge Advocate General, there are multiple components to that role, and my role included just having office hours for military personnel and their spouses to come in with their legal matters. It could be that they bought a car that was a lemon, and what do they do now? Or they were struggling with their rent, or were on the verge of eviction, or they needed their income taxes done. That's something that on a military base, we had the Volunteer Income Tax Assistance program or the VITA program. We used to always get troops ready for deployment. They would have a checklist. They would have to come in for us to prepare wills and powers of attorney and make sure that they had everything in place for their family before they deployed, or if they were a single parent, what were they doing to ensure that their child or children were cared for? So it was giving peace of mind to military personnel and their families, which was extremely important, but then also looking at government contracts or supporting the base general as he or she was making decisions that affected the base, because military bases are small cities.
And one special designation that I had, that was during Desert Storm. I was stationed at Osan Air Base in South Korea, 30 miles south of Seoul. I was designated as the Geneva Convention lawyer. As the Geneva Convention lawyer, I had to train the troops on what the Geneva Convention says if you are captured by the enemy. What does the Geneva Convention say with respect to the targets that the military could put in their sites, and what were the parameters around not targeting houses of worship or schools, etc, and making sure to limit the impact on civilians. So the role of a JAG was so multifaceted, but it was just so much fun. And I was, I was also a prosecutor, and so that's where I really went. My chops on courts martial and my last duty assignment was as a circuit trial council where I had responsibility for high profile cases spanning 13 States and the Republic of Panama.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. How long were you a JAG?
Angela F. Williams
Six and a half years.
Alan Fleischmann
Did you go from there to the Justice Department?
Angela F. Williams
I sure did. I left the Air Force and went to the Middle District of Florida to be an Assistant US Attorney.
Alan Fleischmann
And there, it's where you really worked out a lot on hate crime investigations as well.
Angela F. Williams
I did that, but mostly that was done when I transitioned from the Middle District of Florida to the Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division.
Alan Fleischmann
And as you look back on those different experiences that, you know, as an attorney part of your life, that the Justice Department part of your life, and then being JAG, Judge Advocate General, do each one rank as important and special? Or does one rank even higher than the other? I'm just curious.
Angela F. Williams
To me, it's always been about serving my country. And so, raising my right hand to take that oath to defend the Constitution of the United States, I took that very seriously, and I was very proud to do that, whether it was while I was on active duty in the military, in the Air Force, or even as the people's prosecutor serving in the Department of Justice, and then going from there to work in on Senator Kennedy's staff, because that's where where I went next. All of that was a through line for me of serving the United States of America, and I was proud to do it.
Alan Fleischmann
That's so cool. I mean, it's amazing.
When you think about your exposure in leadership positions, they do have very comprehensive perspectives built there. I mean, talking about, you know, even your perspective of public service and serving your country was very much focused on civil society. And how do you strengthen it? How do you build it? You know, how do you mitigate the risk of division and build community? It's amazing to have that, that history, obviously, and then to add every one of these jobs is enormous service.
Angela F. Williams
You know what? Alan, I think what's so beautiful about government service and in the military, you're surrounded by people from all cultures, from all religions. And it's, it truly is a melting pot, and that's why I appreciate the decision that my parents made in the 1960s to leave South Carolina and join the United States Navy, and my dad's first duty station being in San Diego. Because that singular decision is what made me my brother and my sister global citizens. You live on military bases where you get to meet people. You move every three years, so you have to always make new friends, a new school, new surroundings, until you learn to be flexible and you learn how to meet new people and not be a stranger, and you build a world of excitement about what's next. And so I just have to say that it's just been an honor and a privilege to serve in all aspects of my professional career, and I think service in the personal aspect as well when it comes to ministry.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that and then, and they've been parallel. They haven't been one. Some things in life have been sequential, obviously, but there are certain things that have been parallel. You never, you know, you build, and you continue to build and reaffirm, rather than actually say, okay, that's now part of my past, and this is part of my future. You take it with you, which is pretty amazing. That's amazing.
So you talked a little bit more about Senator Kennedy's opportunity for you. And what did that actually mean?
Angela F. Williams
Well, what it meant was to see the sausage-making on Capitol Hill. So I don't know if you remember this cartoon that said that was like, how a bill becomes a law. You know, yeah, all those songs, well, I had to go back and revisit those songs that I used to listen to as a kid and see it in action working in the United States Senate. It was such a learning experience. And I said, wow, if the American public would watch C-Span and really understand how the government works, they would be so surprised. And you know, at the time that I was there with a senator, and that was in I joined his office in 1998 there were still some of the legends, history makers in the Senate that folks would remember, and to watch them again work together, even though they may be extremely opposed on on policies or legislation, but to see how they would hammer it out.
And the expectation from Senator Kennedy's staff from him was that we would always sit down and negotiate to the best of our abilities. And I also think about just how fast and furious the world was then, and how we always had to wake up and see what the headline was to know how our day would be shaped. And I even see that happening even more now in 2025 that the world is operating even more so at lightning speed and how people have to come together, whether it's policy makers at federal, state and local levels, whether it's community leaders, whether it's all of us across sectors coming together to respond and to react to what's happening in communities. So I learned that from being in the Senate, and I'm really grateful for having had that experience.
Alan Fleischmann
Do you feel like you learn things that you could apply right then and there? I mean, I know the things you learn in as part of your leadership today, I imagine you had an opportunity to actually build them as well.
Angela F. Williams
Yes, so when I worked with Senator Kennedy, he had already had decades in the Senate, and he had 1,000s and 1,000s of relationships. And so I remember my first hearing like the first couple of days on the job. It was a Senate Judiciary Committee meeting. I sat behind him, and he leaned. He turned his chair slightly, bent his finger for me to come to me, come to him. And he said something to the effect of, hey, you need to call Shrum. And I was like, Yes, sir. And then I had to go back and say, who's Shrum? Who's he talking about? Or he would mention other names that we would all know, and I'd have to go back and figure out, oh, who's that? Yes, and then how do I get in touch with him?
And then, so that was wonderful, just to see the network, to be there when Desmond Tutu came to visit with him, and he called me, “Hey, tell Angela come over so she can meet Bishop Tutu,” or just other people that would come in to see the Senator and have the opportunity to be in the presence and just witness the warmth and the relationship building and the inclusivity of having staff be a part of the conversation. And one thing you'll get a kick out of, Alan, is he would introduce me. He'd say, “Hi, this is Angela. She puts them in jail in the morning, and she prays for them at night,” and that was his way of always introducing me as the prosecutor-pastor. And he loved that.
But the other thing I think I learned, we're working in the Senate on how to be resourceful and resilient. And I remember when, again, within my first month or two on the job, James Byrd was a black man in Jasper, Texas that had been tied to the back of a pickup truck, and he was drugged to death, and that happened literally within the first weeks on the job. And the Senator said to me, we need to have a hearing. I want you to call and get his family on the line, have them come to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee, maybe the FBI and others. And I thought, oh my gosh. Now I know I'm a former federal prosecutor. I know FBI agents. I've worked with them and other federal agents. How am I going to manage all of this? But was able to pull that together quickly to talk about the Hate Crimes Prevention Act. Same thing again, when Matthew Byrd, I'm sorry Matthew Shepard, young college student out of Wyoming who was killed because he was gay and had to bring in Matthew's family and others to talk about, again, Hate Crimes Prevention and the fact that even if you disagree with someone or have personal views that you don't like an individual for whatever reason that doesn't give you license to commit a crime against their person. And so working on the Hate Crimes Prevention Act was truly life changing. It did not get signed into law while I was there, but it did under President Obama.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. How long were you with Senator Kennedy?
Angela F. Williams
Just two years.
Alan Fleischmann
And then you went to Easterseals from there?
Angela F. Williams
No, I went to a law firm and worked at a law firm for several years, and from there, went from Washington, D.C. to Chicago to work in house at Sears as their chief compliance and ethics officer, and then from there, I worked for President Bush and President Clinton as their interfaith liaison for the Bush-Clinton, Katrina fund.
Alan Fleischmann
Yeah, I remember you were there and then you actually led or helped coordinate interfaith efforts after Hurricane Katrina as well. Yes, an amazingly, incredible time of purpose.
Angela F. Williams
Yes, it was. And you know what, I will say that I recently went back to New Orleans for the 20th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, and it was very moving for me. And I actually cried because I had stuffed the emotion for 20 years when I worked for the fund, Bush-Clinton Katrina fund, because I was literally taking phone calls from people like pastors who had lost everything, who only had the shirts on their backs, and their family members, and I remember taking so many calls with them, saying, how can you help us rebuild? We've lost everything. What are the Presidents going to do for us?
And I remember one call in particular where a woman called me and she was crying, and she said that they she and her children and her husband were sleeping on the floor of some house or some location, but overnight, her husband had died in his sleep, and she didn't know what she was going to do, and she was sobbing, and again, in that moment, you have to steal away your emotions because you want to listen and to be there to help the person that's hurting on the other end of the phone. And so I repressed so many of those memories. And being in New Orleans shortly after the hurricane, and also, Alan, I will say, the day that they started putting people on busses from the Superdome and shipping them, transitioning them to places like San Antonio and Houston and others. I actually happened to be at a church conference in San Antonio, so that morning at church, we were welcoming those that were coming in from the Superdome, and I remember the smells, and I remember the feeling of grief and how people were just completely devastated and were being transitioned into shelters and everything. So all of that came flooding back 20 years later.
Alan Fleischmann
Well, I want to get into the books. I want to make sure we do that. I also want to get into talking about, you know, obviously, what you're doing, at United Way Worldwide, 36 countries. I think I always say 37 but I think it's 36, or is it 37?
Angela F. Williams
35.
Alan Fleischmann
Okay, 35 countries around there, which is pretty amazing. I also mentioned how you are literally, at United Way Worldwide, in every neighborhood you could imagine. That there's nothing at scale anywhere like United Way, and there's nothing that speaks to building community at the micro level or the macro level like United Way, and it's non-partisan. It is completely built on bringing the best resources to build community and have it be a reflection of our best selves and the urgency of it. It really is like, I'm so proud to hear about it through you and to witness the work that's being done everywhere.And you, you know, you brought a lot of experience, as I mentioned earlier, to this and EasterSeals, the Seals being a big part of your journey as well.
I want to get into the book, but before I get there, what would you want our listeners to know about the two times you've been CEO, currently and previously, and why it matters so much? You know, you're like a big, bright beacon of light when it comes to the importance of civil society.
Angela F. Williams
And I want to start by saying that after I left the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund, I was the general counsel for the YMCA of the USA, so that was my first foray as an employee, as opposed to a volunteer in the nonprofit sector, and then transitioning to be CEO of Easterseals, which is the nation's largest disability servicing organization in the U.S., and then at United Way Worldwide, which is an incredible Health and Human Services Organization, legacy 138 years old.
One of the things I would say serving in this sector is that we always have the ability to touch lives, to touch individuals and to help them in a multitude of ways. With Easterseals, it was serving people with disabilities. It was educating parents on early childhood signs to make sure that they knew how to test if a child had autism or some other disability, and to ensure that there was early intervention, working with aging parents of adult kids with adults with disabilities, and how to ensure that after they moved on and passed that their kids were still taken care of.
And so that range, from birth to death, is how we serve people at Easterseals, but that's the same concept at United Way. And one of the things, Alan, that you touched on is our breadth and scope. And I have to say that, yes, we are in 35 countries, but what's notable in the United States is that United Way services 95% of communities in the United States. That's a large area to cover, and that's a lot of souls to be responsible for, to be there for them. And yet we do it in a multitude of ways, and I dare say we are in the United States a part of the American infrastructure.
Alan Fleischmann
It is so true. It's extraordinary. And how many years?
Angela F. Williams
138 years old, having been founded in Denver, Colorado.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. And it is true. I mean, it's, I always say, makes apple pie a verb. You know, this idea, this is and taking, you know, seriously, you know how coming together through programs and initiatives can actually change lives, but do it in a way where people feel like it comes from the kitchen table as well as from the board rooms as well as from, you know, walking trails of life. You know, people know that this is what we're doing together. There is nothing like it, and you are adding to it, you know, in such a considerable and formidable way.
And you wrote this book, which I want to get into, because it's such an extraordinarily important time. You know this: Navigating the Age of Chaos, as I mentioned, A Sense-Making Guide to a BANI world That Doesn’t Make Sense. You know, it's so timely. Tell us a little bit what B-A-N-I means, BANI. Who do you write the book for? What gap are you filling? And what conversations are you hoping people will have around the book? And I'm urging everyone to buy the book. The book is an amazingly significant, time-sensitive and timely book, I would argue.
Angela F. Williams
Well, thank you, Alan. So BANI stands for the fact that we live in a chaotic world that is brittle, anxious, non-linear and incomprehensible. And I bet as soon as people hear that they're saying, you're right and we put this book together, my co-author, Jamie Cascio, during covid took a look at the world and said, we need a framework to talk about what we as human beings are currently experiencing. And there is no framework that addresses the now.
There was a framework that people used to use. They used to call it VUCA. We live in a volatile, uncertain, I say chaotic, but I always get that wrong, world and an ambiguous world, but it's really different now, and when you look at covid that affected everyone across the globe, regardless of your socioeconomic status, your education background, religion, none of that mattered. What is it that we are experiencing? How do we talk about it?
So when we talked about brittle, we realized that systems that we always relied on had cracks in them. They were brittle. The healthcare system seemed like it was getting ready to fall apart. The education system was brittle because it wasn't set up to allow kids to still be educated if they weren't going to school and being in the classroom with a teacher. So that was the brittle systems. And then the positive BANI in this book talks about how do we ensure that brittle systems are bendable, and how do we reorganize these systems so that they don't break.
And then we recognize that we live in an anxious world. Anxiety has been at an all time high, not sure that it has ratcheted down yet, but anxiety causes paralysis, and people freeze and don't act. And what we said in terms of a positive to being anxious is to be attentive, to be attentive in terms of what's happening around you, what's happening inside of yourself, so that you don't freeze but continue to act the in in the nonlinear world, is where we think about, oh my gosh, one plus one does not equal two.
But yet, if we become neuroflexible, that's when we become innovative, that's when we become agile, and that's how we need to respond to chaos. And then finally, in a world where it's just incomprehensible, where we say to ourselves, I've never seen this before, I can't imagine this would ever happen, that's where inclusion comes in. Again, recognize that you can't use old solutions for these new problems, but what you can do is bring a variety of people with backgrounds, experiences, lenses, to come and sit around the table and co-create new ways of making sure that we have innovative solutions to fit the current problems.
Alan Fleischmann
You do this in a way that builds trust. That's the thing, I think, by acknowledging, you know, all that worries us, and we show that vulnerability, and you mix it with purpose. It does it even the midst of chaos, that vulnerability probably when shared properly, but they're all the right purpose and intentions builds trust.
Angela F. Williams
Yes, and trust is key, Alan, and trust means human being to human being connectivity.
Alan Fleischmann
Which is not going to ever be replaced by artificial intelligence. You know, the ultimate human being to human being connectivity has probably never been more necessary. With all the technology that we have and all the ways in which we communicate, we crave that more and more. We crave that human to human connectivity.
Angela F. Williams
And you know what else is so key? You mentioned artificial intelligence. I think about social media. I think about technology in general, and how do we know if something is an hallucination, or how do we know something is false if we just rely on what we see on our devices and don't take the time to spend with someone that is not like us or has a different perspective than us, to really understand and hear what they are talking about, so that what we see on our device, we know you know what? That's not true, because I know that person, I know that culture, and that's not the way they behave or think.
Alan Fleischmann
Yeah. Yeah, you know, the fear of the unknown is a powerful fear. And you know, then great Nelson Mandela quote, "Courage is not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it." So much of what you're saying in the book, and you're building every day, honestly, with United Way Worldwide, is this idea that you're just talking about, which is coming together, sharing vulnerability, a purpose as well, and good intentions. We can do great things and do them at scale. It may start in your backyard, but with the right partnerships, you can actually take it and actually have an enormous impact, building on that. And then you're not suggesting you're not fearful, and that there aren't things to be fearful of, but to turn that into purpose and courage. That's the triumph.
Angela F. Williams
That's right, and that's what this book does. And at the end of it, it actually has self-reflection questions. It has questions that you use as part of a group discussion. So it's applicable to the individual who's on their own journey, personally and self-discovery. But it's also a book for leadership, and it's a book for teams.
Alan Fleischmann
What do you mean when you in the book, you talk about a nonlinear moment? What is a nonlinear moment?
Angela F. Williams
A nonlinear moment is something where it's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is happening. And so you're going to have to come up with critical thinking. Use your critical thinking skills to come up with an improvised way of doing things. And so I think about, in the beginning of 2025, there were those wildfires in Los Angeles, and I'm going to give you more of a United Way story where that was incomprehensible. It wiped out so many communities and so many people, instantly homeless, and the call centers were just overwhelmed with people looking for help.
So just in our little lane of United Way and 211, which is a three-digit Health and Human Services code that people can access, we realized that the call center in Los Angeles was overwhelmed, and so our team immediately brought on other call centers from around the country to take on the overflow. And then what we did was, so we had 13 states actually behind the scenes, their 211 call centers activated to focus on Los Angeles, and then we had this partnership with Airbnb to be able to get 35,000 households in place immediately. And so where you would normally just say, oh, well, that call center is going to be overwhelmed. We could think about leveraging existing resources in a different way to ensure people's needs were there.
So that's more around the how do we look at something. We were just surprised that it happened, and we have to do something different, and we have to be innovative and agile and flexible. That is really the name of the game nowadays. I mean, if you wake up every morning and look at the news and you have to think about, okay, well, what's next?
Now, can I just tell you a funny story, Alan, from this morning, where I did not practice what I preached, because I’m used to talking to Alexa in the mornings, and I'm used to directing Alexa on the music that I want to hear in the mornings. And this morning, I kept yelling at Alexa, thinking she wasn't paying attention to me because I wanted my music played. And she kept saying, "I'm sorry, but we cannot connect to your Amazon music subscription." And I was like, but you're talking to me so you can connect. And what happened? We were disconnected. The world was disconnected temporarily this morning, our apps and our systems, and so we will continue to see more and more things happening in unexpected ways. And what do we do to pause just for a moment to say, I may need to pivot. How will I pivot? Do I use existing resources? Do I bring in other people to help me think through the pivot?
Alan Fleischmann
And do you give yourself downtime? I mean, you're very spiritual. You're obviously you, you pray and you give yourself moments of deep faith. I'm just curious. When you're thinking about it, you're extraordinarily creative. And you bring partners together around uncommon tables, I would argue. Do you do that? Does it come to you all day? Are you energized all day? Or are you as outgoing as I think you are? Do you need to recharge? You actually go back to a place and say, I need time to take that walk, to write that journal, to reflect?
Angela F. Williams
Yes, I do need those moments of downtime, and it starts at least the first hour of each day in prayer meditation. So that means getting up at 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning and going into my office and hitting it, which is great and what I need, because I'm an early bird anyway, and I always wake up with things on my mind, like solutions and, oh, to-do list. So the meditation part is important on a daily basis.
Seven days a week, I try to get the snippets of the journaling in as well, because I like to remember and celebrate and connect dots from day to day about what has happened and see that through line in the reflection. Now, do I do as much with the R&R that I should do? No. And do I want to get better? Yes. And do I always make that my New Year's resolution? Yep. Will I do it again in the coming months? Absolutely, and I am committed to trying to do better. But I'm grateful that I have a husband that pokes me every once in a while and says, hey, you need to slow down.
Alan Fleischmann
That's a little bit about your family life. You brought your husband up, who's been an extraordinary partner to you. I know your biggest champion on so many levels. Tell us a little bit about family life today for you.
Angela F. Williams
Well, thank you. So Rod is a pastor ordained minister. When we were in Chicago, we launched our own ministry, and he has decades of service with prison ministry, and for a period of time, he worked for Prison Fellowship ministries. Chuck Colson founded the ministry, and he has continued while in Chicago, doing work in prison and with ex-offenders. He also, as of late, has been working in one of the low income housing neighborhoods and buildings where he's launched trauma healing programs for adults and for children. They also do a lot around cleaning up the neighborhood, and they have Sunday Fun Day where they're able to get the Chicago Police to shut down a block so that they can set up clowns and bouncy houses and all kinds of fun activities for the kids to feel safe, and they barbecue and all of that. So everybody comes out of the housing buildings and are able to just enjoy community. And so he always says, you know, I'm the grassroots guy, Angela. You know, she's that highfalutin person, but you know what? They say, opposites attract, and both of us are bound by a sense of mission to serve others.
Alan Fleischmann
And you both, I think, by the BANI framework, I just naturally imagine the work that you do. And because I know he's all about aligning, you know, what he does as a pastor, but also community building, and, you know, building frameworks to bring people together, even in unusual or uncommon ways. I shouldn't say unusual, but certainly uncommon ways. We need more of it so it's not common. So that's tha's for sure too.
Are you able to find yourself to apply that same framework across communities globally as well?
Angela F. Williams
Oh, yes, absolutely. A great example is when the war started between Russia and Ukraine. That first day, our United Way of Hungary staff jumped into their United Way van, went into Ukraine and were helping the refugees. In fact, our CEO, Kenser at that time, she ran across someone that needed insulin, and she gave her own insulin up out of her purse to that person because people were just frightened. They were fleeing for their lives. They were uncertain about their future. Fast forward that the United Ways of Romania, Hungary, Germany, Poland and the Netherlands all came together and we at United Way Worldwide, in the D.C. area, helped to support this coalition to be able to raise funds and to help the refugees from Ukraine resettle, get reoriented, to have the appropriate legal paperwork that was needed to help with housing. And some of the basic needs and, of course, even mental health and counseling.
Alan Fleischmann
How would you recommend listeners and readers, actually, in this case, listeners from the radio show here, Leadership Matters, but also the readers of your book, who come from different perspectives and different levels of leadership, whether they're the CEO or whether they're policy makers or their community leaders, or just working away and making things work and get done – how would you recommend that they apply the BANI framework in their own lives?
Angela F. Williams
I would say, please read the elements of the book, because we give examples of leaders from history and current leaders that exhibit, naturally, those tendencies around BANI. And I dare share there are many more people that are operating already in this framework but don't even know it, and what this framework does is to give them names and terms to use to describe how they are responding to the chaos around them, and it also provides a methodology of just reflection and recognizing others that have that same mindset.
And then, finally, I would say, for managers and leaders, it's a great way of teaching teams how to respond. One of the things that we can never, ever forget. And I go back to the beginning of our conversation, Alan, when I talked about being on active duty and recognizing that everybody has a role to play. BANI also recognizes that as well. And really, when we talk about innovation and bringing folks together and neuro flexibility, that's where we have to bring in people that don't sound like us, look like us, speak like us, or have the same experiences. There is wisdom in the council of many.
Alan Fleischmann
Are you optimistic, concerned, pessimistic? I mean, I know your energy is always so optimistic and that you give us such inspiration. But are you at a point where you see the light around the corner where people will come more together and build those uncommon tables of importance and impact? Or do you worry that it's waning away?
Angela F. Williams
It may look like it's waning away, but I say to all of us, go back and look at history, and you always see the ebbs and flows of humanity, of governments, of communities, and so even though we may feel as if we're being pulled apart in that tension, I do believe we begin to crave the coming together.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that, and you think that a little bit of a pendulum shift towards that as well. Yes, that's great. What am I not asking you that I should ask? And are there things that we should make sure people know about United Way Worldwide, about the book, that you really want to make sure that our listeners know, because it's such an important book, your leadership is so important at United Way and the colleagues, there's nothing like it. As I mentioned a few times today, I think that you bring inspiration, but you also bring a lot of perspiration too, you know? And if there are people who wanted to volunteer, is there a role for them to play?
Angela F. Williams
So that was a lot of questions. All right, I'm going to start first with the connection, and I just want to say that when people buy the book Navigating the Age of Chaos, the proceeds, my portion of the proceeds, go directly to United Way Worldwide. So, and also Institute for the Future is the other nonprofit that my colleagues come from.
So I just want you to know that you are furthering the good work in this sector when you purchase this book. Secondly, again, as I've already said, it's a great primer. It's a great way of thinking about the world and how we show up and behave in the world. The last thing I would say is that when it comes to United Way, we are truly a beacon of lighting communities. We are that convener. We always say that we are there before a disaster happens, during the disaster, and long after. We are your neighbors, and we consider ourselves to be neighbors helping neighbors. So take advantage of the opportunity to give your time, talent and treasure to your local United Way. We have 1,100 local United Ways operating in 35 countries. And I would say, if you need more information about our wonderful organization, you can find us on Unitedway.org.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. This has been so exciting. I knew we needed more than an hour. We're going to have to have you back on because I think what you're doing every day, the impact you're having every day, your colleagues are having every day in this country, it's so powerful and it's so important to people to know it. And then obviously, in 35 countries around the world. And the book, please read the book.
You've been listening to Leadership Matters on SiriusXM and at leadershipmattersshow.com I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann. We just spent the last hour, and I'm looking forward to another one, with Angela F. Williams, the President and CEO of United Way Worldwide, and the co-author of a new book, Navigating in the Age of Chaos.
It was a pleasure having you on, Angela. It's so important to know how much people can be involved in their community, ave a global approach, understand that the intersection between public, private and civil society has never been more important, and that we have a lot of work to do together to build trust and overcome division at a time where impact can be immediate, and that's what you're doing every day. So I just want to say thank you for your leadership, and I hope everybody joins in with you and reads the book and then applies it in the way you do every day. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Angela F. Williams
Thank you. Alan, it was a pleasure joining you today.