Andi Owen
President and CEO, MillerKnoll
We let those ideas and that outside thinking shift the way we thought about the design projects and shift the way we thought about what we were doing. And I find that openness to being influenced by different ideas and openness to bringing in different ways of thinking is really part of who we are.
Summary
This week on “Leadership Matters,” Alan was joined by a global leader in retail and design, Andi Owen. Andi is the President and CEO of MillerKnoll (formerly Herman Miller and Knoll), a dynamic brand collective that is revolutionizing offices, workspaces and homes with their innovative furnishings. With over 30 years of experience in fashion and design leadership, Owen lends a fascinating perspective to art and work spaces in a post-pandemic world.
In this thought-provoking conversation, Andi and Alan discuss her extensive experiences in fashion, design and retail, her time as an executive at leading brands like Bloomingdale’s, Banana Republic, and Gap and how her interest in the arts inspired her career journey. Andi also reinforces her belief that furniture pieces should be enduring and timeless, ones that can even be passed down as heirlooms.
In a post-pandemic world where our home and office spaces and furniture can often become one-in-the-same, Andi Owen and MillerKnoll are changing the way we think about usability, purpose and sustainability in work spaces.
Mentions & Resources in this Episode
Guest Bio
Andi Owen is the President and CEO for MillerKnoll, a global home and office furniture company and brand collective known for its timeless and iconic designs. As CEO, Andi leads the company’s worldwide operations – encompassing 11,000 team members and $4.1 billion in fiscal 2023 – and oversees MillerKnoll’s strategy to catalyze industry transformation and redefine modern design.
Andi played an instrumental role in bringing legacy brands Herman Miller and Knoll together as one brand collective, and now leverages her demonstrated experience leading complex customer-focused businesses to drive MillerKnoll’s industry innovation and leadership.
Andi is also passionate about using design thinking to solve complex problems, leveraging innovation to improve people’s lives, and using business as a force for good.
As CEO, Andi has helped advance MillerKnoll’s many philanthropic and community-oriented initiatives, and lead the company to be a catalyst for positive change. Under her leadership, MillerKnoll established the MillerKnoll Foundation – a global philanthropic platform focused on engaging underrepresented youth in art and design, advancing equity in MillerKnoll communities worldwide, and driving sustainability and environmental action – and launched its Diversity in Design program – a design collaborative aimed at fostering diversity and systemic change across design in any industry.
As a dedicated advocate for sustainability, Andi is also committed to keeping MillerKnoll’s design from contributing to landfill waste. During her tenure as CEO, Andi expanded Herman Miller’s existing rePurpose program to encompass the entire U.S. brand collective, providing customers and dealers across the country with sustainable options for handling and discarding used MillerKnoll products.
Andi sits on several Boards, including Taylor Morrison, National Association of Manufacturers (NAM), and The Right Place. She is also a member of Business Leaders for Michigan.
Prior to her appointment as President and CEO, Andi served as President and CEO of Herman Miller, where she oversaw the company’s growth strategy. Andi holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from the College of William and Mary, and an AMP from Harvard Business School.
Episode Transcript
Alan Fleischmann
I'm joined today by an executive leader, a friend who is reimagining workplace dynamics amidst an ever-changing work environment. Andi Owen is the president and CEO of MillerKnoll, a global home and office furniture company and brand collective known for its timeless and iconic designs. As the former president and CEO of Herman Miller, Andi helped to lead its merger with legacy brand Knoll in order to create MillerKnoll. She is now singularly focused on leading MillerKnoll in redefining modern design, and catalyzing change in the industry. Prior to her time at MillerKnoll and Herman Miller, she spent several years with Gap Inc. and Banana Republic, where she gained a valuable foundation and notable experience driving innovation and leading customer focused businesses worldwide. Andi also sits on several boards, including Taylor Morrison, the National Association of Manufacturers and The Right Place, and is a member of the Business Leaders from Michigan. Andi has been a vocal and passionate advocate for advancing societal change through MillerKnoll’s business, and has made community impact and giving back a centerpiece and her vision for the collective. I'm excited to have her join us today to hear more about her life, her career and her inspiring philanthropy and philosophy on leadership, and in the modern world how we actually can live among each other in a beautiful way.
Welcome, Andi, to leadership matters. It is a pleasure to have you on with us today.
Andi Owen
Thanks, Alan. It's a pleasure to be here.
Alan Fleischmann
I am so excited and have been looking forward to this for a while. You bring such heart and soul to everything you do. And I thought it would be great for our listeners who are, as you know, CEOs and aspiring CEOs and leaders in their own right and the different things that they aspire to do every day, to get a little bit of your wisdom. And I always say when I think of you, you're somebody who leads with humility. You have confidence and humility, which is an irresistible combination. And I always feel like the secret sauce, whenever you talk to you long is you have a sense of gratitude, a real commitment to the humanity of the world. And you don't think about that when you think of a design furniture kind of an environment. And then when you go a little deeper you do, you realize what you're doing is you're creating, you know, what makes us all human. How do you create that soul, how do you create that environment in which we can all enjoy being with one another and sharing with one another.
So, there's a lot we want to cover today. But I thought we'd start with your childhood growing up in Virginia. What was life like around the house? And what did your parents do, any brothers or sisters, you know a little bit about life growing up.
Andi Owen
That's funny, into the wayback machine. I was born and raised in Virginia. My parents were both from Virginia. My dad was actually a musician. He was a church organist, and taught music in college and my mom was an educator pretty much her whole life. My dad passed away, unfortunately, when my brother and I were in elementary school, and my mother very confidently and competently raised my brother and I on her own. And she went on to get a couple different master's degrees and doctorate degrees. And she's always been a role model and a mentor for me in so many ways. There's so much I've learned from her so many lessons on how to go through life with great grace and gratitude.
And my brother is older than me, two and a half years older. And he also pursued a career in the arts. He's a musician just like my dad. So looking back, if you think about my background, it's clear that sort of an appreciation for art, and design and creativity, whether it's something like what I do now, or something intangible like music has really a common thread in my life.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. And your mom too, was she interested in music and the arts?
Andi Owen
She sang actually. She would say she didn't sing very well. But she did sing and I think she and my dad might have met in college in a choir or something like that. I should know that story. But I'm pretty sure that's what brought them together.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. And am I right that you were originally interested in becoming a museum curator in life? But when did that start, that started in high school did that start earlier?
Andi Owen
If you want to go way, way back when I was little, I wanted to be an archaeologist. And then I started taking dance classes and I went to a fine arts high school and I wanted to be a ballet dancer. But as I got into college and I discovered I probably wasn't good enough to do that, I became very interested in studying art history. And as I studied that in college, it's really what I wanted to pursue was to be a curator. And I think it kind of stemmed from my, you know, my background and my family and the arts.
But it's funny because as I waded into the field, and you know, how you do internships and you interview with people that are doing the job, I kind of realized it wasn't for me for a variety of reasons. But I was still very passionate about a career that embodied creativity and expression in some way. So I think that's sort of how I ended up in the creative fields that I have throughout my life. I've always had an appreciation for that and for the creative process. Probably not the most creative person in my family, though I think I, but I appreciate it a lot. Let's put it that way.
Alan Fleischmann
This other love of art history, it was art history that you that you majored in in college. You went to William and Mary, right, and you majored in art history.
Andi Owen
I did, I did.
Alan Fleischmann
Very cool. Any highlights of the experiences and internships and things that you were exploring that, kind of looking back, you realize that that was a great mentor or that was a great moment that kind of changed the trajectory of my life?
Andi Owen
You know, I had so many amazing professors when I was in college. And I think one of the things that really stood out for me was thinking about art as sort of, and creativity in general, as sort of a reaction to what's happening in the world at the time. And then everything happening in response to something else. So really, the connectivity of great periods in art and great artists and how they represent what was happening at the time and the problems that needed to be outlined or talked about or solved at the time, I think was really interesting to me.
Alan Fleischmann
That's very cool. And did you go right into working in retail? Or was there a gap between college and jumping in?
Andi Owen
Oh, gosh, it's a really good question. You know, I think for my first year out of college, I did work in an art gallery and learned how to frame and I learned a lot about kind of the mechanical part of art. I also interned at the museum, which was on my college campus. And then one of my friends, it's kind of funny, these stories, said, “Hey, listen, you've always been really interested in fashion and creativity, you want to think about fashion.” And so I did. And that's why I made the transition into fashion.
Alan Fleischmann
Which is art too.
Andi Owen
Very much so, very much so.
Alan Fleischmann
And then was that was that when you went to Bloomingdale's or was that soon after? Or was there a gap between there?
Andi Owen
Yeah, after I left college, I went to Bloomingdale's, spent the first part of my career in the 80s – dating myself back in Bloomingdale's – and sort of went through their extensive kind of management training program in New York, then all over the East Coast. And then, as you do, I met a guy, moved to California and I was, at the time, ended up being recruited by The Gap. And then I spent 26 years with Gap working at Banana Republic, Old Navy and Gap, and in almost, I think, almost every function in the company and every channel. And it was really a great learning experience, I learned a lot about managing people, I learned a lot about running a business. It was an incredibly successful company when I first joined, and then as time went on, you sort of go through the cycle of business. So I learned about a lot about the highs and the lows. But really, really an amazing start to my career journey.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. I guess, you said to me soemthing really interesting. The training programs are so important. And in those days actually particularly like the Bloomingdale's of the world and Gap, probably The Gap probably had to, they had among the best training, leadership and interpersonal skills as well as understanding the merchandising part of business. But, tell us a little bit about that experience, are there things as a CEO today you draw on from that experience? And I bet it's become part of your DNA as a leader when you think about mentoring others, but they were really among the best in the world at that point.
Andi Owen
Yeah, looking back on it now, and looking at how we develop people today, they were quite extensive, and I'm sure quite costly, but you essentially worked in all parts of the business. So if I look at the Bloomingdale's training program, you worked in every office and every part of the business and you sort of learned it from the ground up. So by time you were foisted into managing a team or leading a larger business, you had essentially spent, you know, months, sometimes years going through those initial areas. And in the same as Gap, Gap had a kind of legendary training program where you did the same thing. You spent time with production, time in merchandising, across the board.
So for me, I don't think I realized that at the time, Alan, you know, I sort of – you're young, and what do you know, but I kind of just went through the motions. But I look back on when I learned about kind of business basics, what I learned about managing people, what I learned about how to be put in situations where I had no idea what I was doing. You know, you're just instantly stupid. And the value of asking questions and sort of appreciating that novice mindset and curiosity. I think I've kind of carried with me, throughout my career as sort of a, I don't know, the way I manage myself and the way I think about learning and the way I think about new experiences, you have to be a little bit afraid aand you have to not really be sure of what you're doing to be open to a new learning experience, or at least for me. But that those two training programs, I think for me really forged that importance of continuously learning something new.
And I just think I had that realization when you asked me that question, so, thank you.
Alan Fleischmann
It's also sends a message to others that it's okay to be uncomfortable. Knowing that practice and variance creates expertise. But when you're starting off in your career, and you're being asked to do things, you're being exposed to different things. They want you to be vulnerable, because they want you to ask those questions, you want to show that curiosity. And it's actually almost necessary for you to be uncomfortable.
Andi Owen
Yeah. And you know, now that I'm older it's so easy to say that. But when you're young and you're starting out, gosh, you think you have to be the expert on everything. And you think you have to have all the answers. And I think, learning to authentically say, “I don't know” or “I don't understand,” or “I don't have the answer,” that I think is a big leadership journey. And you get to that poin., I wish I'd gotten to it younger, I felt like I needed to the expert probably for a few too many years. But that sort of humbling experience of realizing it's okay, it's really important.
Alan Fleischmann
So you were at Bloomingdale's on the East Coast, and then when you went to The Gap, it was when you moved to the West Coast. How many years were your Bloomingdale's before you joined The Gap?
Andi Owen
For four and a half, almost five. Yeah.
Alan Fleischmann
That was a good chunk. And then tell us a little bit about this journey. Because you had a pretty amazing journey, Bloomingdale's, Gap, Old Navy, Banana Republic. Tell us a little bit about that journey and the different experiences. You had a variety of different roles.
Andi Owen
Yeah, I sure did. you know, I started out in stores and sort of, you know, learning to manage the store environment and the folks that work in stores. I was in LA at the time, and then I moved on to stores to learning merchandising, and then I went internationally and ran Canada as a country for a while. Then went back and I think opened up working on the initial launch of e-commerce and I remember when I moved from merchandising to e-commerce, I remember my boss telling me, “It's the craziest thing you'll ever do, and no one's ever gonna buy their clothes online.” We laugh about that now. But it seemed like a very real thing at the time. And then I did that for a while. I managed the outfit off price business for a while, really sort of all over the company.
And I think every time I made a move, I ended up learning something new, a new skill, a new business. And that was really valuable for me. So by the time I got to the point of leaving Banana Republic, it had been a really edifying career. And I think, just with the, the curve of fashion, I think that was interesting to watch, too, and how that's changed over the years. And for me, kind of at the end of my career at Banana, I think one of the things that really became important to me was what was happening in the fashion industry. You know, when I first started out, it was it was very different than it has been over the last decade or so. And I think the rise of fast fashion and doing more for less and less and less, it started to feel a little bit like, every season, we were sort of designing next season's landfill, and that kind of merciless sort of creating what seemed to me to be ultimately, waste and perhaps things that people didn't really need was I think one of the things that I kept waking up in the morning asking myself, is this what I want to do with the next chapter of my life? And it turns out, it wasn't. And I was lucky to be of age and stage where I could decide to kind of leave that industry behind with lots of love and admiration, and move on to my next thing.
Alan Fleischmann
Where did Harvard Business School fit in that along the way? By the way, did you go full time?
Andi Owen
Yeah, well, you know, I laughed and I said to myself, I'm not going to do anything for a year. I'm going to say no to everything that comes my way. So I wanted to just take a year and clear the decks and think about what I wanted to do next. But I'd always wanted to go back to school. And I'd always wanted to go to business school. And the only other time in my life that I got close enough to it was right before I got pregnant with my son. So that didn't happen for a few years. And so I had a long conversation with my husband, and I said, “Listen, I want to apply for Harvard's Exec program, and I'll be away from from the family. And I'll be living in Boston in a dorm, you'll have the fort and the son and everything else.”
And he was great. So I applied, I got accepted. And I went off to live in Boston for a while. And I had an amazing cohort of 150 people, and we still WhatsApp every day from around the world. And it was an amazing experience. And I think with the the experience I've already had working for so many years coupled with being in a cohort like that, because for me the learning yes, they were amazing professors And yes, we had great content, but I learned so much from the people that were there with me.
And yeah, it's a funny story, because I ended up at Herman Miller. I was in my last day, graduating from Harvard sitting in my dorm room, and the recruiter called me for Herman Miller, which is just such a funny turn of events and I remembered studying Herman Miller when I was in high school and really learning about the legacy of the company and, and how they really started with a focus on sustainability, inclusivity and servant leadership, and yeah, so the timing ended up being perfect.
Alan Fleischmann
The thing about leadership 25-30 years ago, the first time I realized that Herman Miller was not just a leadership philosophy, it was actually a business behind it. And I remember reading about this incredible book called Leadership [Is an Art], you know, lessons and advice.
Andi Owen
It was one of the first leadership books I read, I think when I started on my leadership journey. Super meaningful, and I think a credit to, you know, Max and DJ and the whole family, and it's really, it's been a practice that at Herman Miller, you know, we're over 100 plus year old company. So it's a really wonderful legacy.
Alan Fleischmann
Tell us a little bit about that. Was that a big, that must have been exciting, obviously, and a little bit of an omen here in a good way when your last day in the dorm to get this phone call, right? And then it introduces you to something that you do and then, in many ways, it's a combination of all the different things you were doing under one roof, when you think about it.
Andi Owen
Yeah, I look back on it now. And it certainly seems that way. Of course, at the time, I had no way and I kept, whenever I would complete an interview, I kept saying, “Hey, listen, I don't know anything about making furniture, I can make you a great t shirt. I am not the person you want, I don't really understand.” And they kept saying, the board members, we're looking for someone who can reimagine their business, we're looking for someone who has a background just like yours, you know, we have a retail business we want to advance and evolve into the next century. And so I think you wade in every interview to find out more and more and everything I found out confirmed it. Because I think for me it wasn't just, does this company match what I want to do with this next chapter in my life, but do I have skills and gifts that I can bring this company that will be helpful. What's the potential for this company to grow. And then what's the culture in the company, and is that something that is inspiring, and it really checked all the boxes. And so yeah, it's turned out to be an amazing sort of amalgamation of all things, which I guess is a happy coincidence.
Alan Fleischmann
That's so full circle. And so when you had that moment, did you lean in with the idea that I want to do this? Or do you lean into this, let me test this for a bit, understand why they want me, let me really go through that?
Andi Owen
Well, you know, it was an extensive interview process. I think by the time I got through it, I knew what I needed to know. But I think with anything, the things that always stand in your way are sort of, it was exciting to me, as I said it checked on my box, is this really the family stuff, right? You know, I married a guy from California who served, I raised a son from California who served and I sort of came home one day and said, “Hey, you want to move to Michigan?” And I think that was really more of a conversation about hey, what are our lives going to be like and how will things change. And, you know, it wasn't just a decision about me, it was a decision about our whole family. But we were all in. And I would say it's been a great experience, not just for me, but for my family too, which makes a difference.
Alan Fleischmann
That’s so cool. So tell us a little bit about Herman Miller in the sense of what it does, and the things that people can identify a little bit with, you know, the different things and we now know, I know a lot of the furniture that actually is from Herman Miller. I've got a huge book that actually has all the designs and all the furniture of Woodstown MillerKnoll, but with Herman Miller furniture. It’s a beautiful, I think its Fidon, I don't know the publisher, it's a beautiful book that has all the different beautiful photographs in it of the journey of the company that is pretty spectacular. For those who don't know the iconic brands or the, it's hard to do when you're doing radio versus video, but explain a little bit about when you think of Herman Miller, what do you think of?
Andi Owen
You probably think primarily about the products, right? so Herman Miller and Knoll, now MillerKnoll, were both furniture design companies. Herman Miller started as a residential furniture design company and Knoll certainly has it in their background as well. And most people that I speak to when I say I work at MillerKnoll don't really know much about the brand, but recognize the iconic, the Eames lounge chair, the Saarinen table from Knoll. So, really, both companies have a legacy of designing amazing spaces and designing amazing furniture products for the people in those spaces. And I think the philosophy behind what we do is very centered in design thinking and very centered in identifying what will a space be used for? What are the problems that exist for the people that are in that space? And how can we solve those problems through great design? Because there's always problems to solve.
So if you look back to Florence Knoll and the history of normal thinking about space planning in an office environment, how will that be used? What was the building like? What was the space that people would be in? What would they be doing in this space? And how does the furniture and everything in that space relate to that and create environments that are collaborative and productive, and that kind of extends into residences, that extends into healthcare, and to the environments that we're in. So I always say, yes, we make residential furniture, yes, we make office furniture, but at our soul, and in our heart, we're really a design company. And that's what's made us successful. The innovation that comes from thinking about problems and solving them in a way that makes people's lives better in many ways. And of course the Aeron chair, people would always recognize the Aeron chair, can't forget that.
Alan Fleischmann
The importance of, you know, tradition and transformation, the aesthetics of both, you know, we're all wanting to come from somewhere and bring it with us, and there’s a nostalgia to a lot of your furniture. And then there's this idea of like incredible creativity. How do we, how do we take that tradition, embrace it, but also embrace transformation, so that we are imagining tomorrow together.
Andi Owen
I like how you say there's nostalgia, and that makes a really great way to look at it. Because when you think I'll take the Eames lounge chair, for example, you know I read this amazing article, it might have been in The New York Times about a man that had inherited his grandfather's Eames lounge chair that he had sort of lovingly taken care of over the years. And that whole idea of just a beautiful classic design that can be handed down from generation to generation, kind of lovingly maintained is really cool.
So there is nostalgia, but there's also an element of what else is happening in the world today. So I look at our gaming business, and I say, you know, yes, how do you then identify all of these people that are sitting at their computers and in actively physically doing something today that really requires a different kind of support and a different kind of thinking to think about how they can actually game more effectively. So they're kind of two different sides of have a very really interesting dilemma that we face every day, which is kind of cool.
Alan Fleischmann
Which creates a culture of embracing the past, and never being complacent, and reinventing fo the future and reinterpreting the past, which must be exciting, actually. Because there's nothing more powerful than having purpose to wake up every day, knowing that we can't be complacent, we have to be the most supportive to our our customers in a way that, our clients, that speaks to what their needs are, but do it in a way that also creates culture. I'm so struck by just how much MillerKnoll, is about creating culture, or curating culture may be better, because the culture may be there, but how do you actually enhance it for those who want to design their own lives or design their own work lives?
Andi Owen
Yeah, because I mean, essentially, I learned this coming here. My husband's an architect, I can't really say that I learned as much from him as I should have. But you really do have to think about the people and what the people are doing in whatever space you're thinking about, and what are they bringing, and what are they they want. What is the culture and how can they be at their best, and that really does play into a lot of some of the most cool stuff that we work on. And it's a really interesting cast of characters here, you know, everyone from an amazing sales team to incredible engineers and robotics engineers, and then great designers from the outside that are all just thinking so extensively about this stuff. So, it's been a great learning experience. I think I walk away every day, always learning something new.
Alan Fleischmann
How global are you? Because I mean, I imagine one of the exciting things and reinforcing things is when you led this merger, I mean, we should back up maybe and talk about what was so attractive about merging Knoll with Herman Miller. Because to me it just made such perfect sense. It seems like a natural, you know, two high quality businesses who have very similar philosophies, coming together with the same commitment for that innovation you were talking about. And that then the beauty and also tradition. And then on the other hand, I'm sure it is the challenge of bringing cultures together and the challenge of being global, even more global, because of it. Just tell us a little bit of the thinking that led to the merger, but also a little bit of the thinking that how, how challenging is it, how exciting is it to be so global?
Andi Owen
Those are all great and extensive questions. Let's start with the global one. It's amazing to be global. And I think every region of the world, if you think about just the pandemic, was impacted in a similar way, and in a very different way. So for me as a leader, being able to look at what's happening in our home country, let's say the United States, and also understanding how things are translating in different regions of the world, helps really frame my viewpoint about what's important to us, and what we should really focus on in the future. So it's a true advantage. And I also think, being a company that focuses on design and diversity of thinking and inclusivity, if different ideas coming from all over the world, that really helps us be more innovative and more creative, which is a gift as well.
And then as far as the merger, you know, the contract furniture industry, if you take the retail part of it out of it, it's a very slow moving industry that really had never consolidated, pretty much at all. And when I joined, and as we were sort of, you're always thinking about what is your growth plan, we just kept scratching at the question of, well, why hasn't the industry consolidated and what will people be doing? I we tried to look around the corner over the next few years, our strong feeling was that the industry would get smaller, and, and that we would need to find benefits of scale. And so if we looked across the patch, all of our competitors, so many of our initial design thinkers and people that really brought Herman Miller to glory, and Knoll to glory. Even think about the Eameses, and Gerard and Nelson and Florence Knoll and Saarinen, they went to Cramberg together. They all had very similar sort of upbringings and thinking, and the culture of the two companies were actually similar. Of course, different, but much more similar than you might think. So that design heritage, and the way we approached our company, the way we approached design was very, very similar. So that really led us to start the conversations.
Now, looking back on it with hindsight, you know, completing an acquisition and a merger in the midst of a pandemic had its own special set of challenges. And if you remember, Alan, I felt like we were coming out of the pandemic and going in and coming out, you know, five or six different times throughout this process. But as we look back on it now, you know, we have no regrets. And we felt like we anticipated what could happen in the industry. Our industry has shrunk over 30% in the last four years, so we're in a position of strength and we've really been able to collectively bring together some amazing brands and talents. So that's what led to the merger, and I think has kind of seen us through the first two and a half years of the integration process.
Alan Fleischmann
Let's just say, I think it was so amazing what you said also, before, that, in many ways, the pandemic was, you know, an example how we're all the same, and that we all went through something similar around the world, but that was the sticking point and also how we interpreted. Now, the whole idea of the return to office is very different. I mean, I know, from my own experiences when I travel to London, there never was a pandemic. If I travel to Singapore, there, they may be wearing masks in the meeting. But they're asking me, why is it that you're not all back in the office five days? Yeah, they’ve been back in the office five days a week forever. And it's in the States and in Canada its a little different and I was curious, you get to see something that nobody else gets to see. First of all, you're building an emerged global company, you know, coming out of a pandemic, and then you're seeing how they're very different perspectives on where we are globally, when it comes to the future of work, the future of home life even, which creates enormous opportunity as well as challenges I imagine.
Andi Owen
Yeah, you know, I think the pandemic and emerging from the pandemic has done, I mean, it's one of the most huge and far reaching changes that we'll probably experience in our lifetime, right. And I think remote work is a big part of that. And I think it's put a lot of stress, and I think, impetus to change on our industry in particular, and how we think about reacting to those problems. Because it's come in phases. You know, at first we thought, hey, this remote thing is great, we can all do it. Imagine all the freedom and flexibility we'll have. But you know, we went into this pandemic with established culture, establish relationships and trust. And what we've learned throughout this time period, is how important it is to have that face to face interaction, how important it is to be together. So the value of that I think has been a really interesting learning. I think I, you probably saw, but I was just reading about a new study from Yale that talks about how your brain makes more emotional connections when you're face to face than you do over a video screen. So I think, all throughout this process we've learned and with every new thing we learn, we adapt and we move into kind of this new future. But I don't even know if I ended up answering your question, did I answer your question, Alan, or did I just ramble?
Alan Fleischmann
No you didn’t ramble at all, it was really insightful. But I also think talking to you and hearing from you, and I read things you've been saying in interviews, you get to talk about, in ways that actually people can relate to, there are multiple global perspectives about the future of the workplace. I'd love it if you'd share a little bit about the return to work and what it means. I would argue, if I were a betting man, what you're building, both at the office and then at home life has got to be an increasingly huge demand. Because people don't want to go into the office if it's not going to have that home life. And people wanted when they're home, they want to feel like they're also speaking to their best selves at home, which is an opportunity. Curious is that true, number one, and then is it different as you go around the world?
Andi Owen
It's definitely different as you go around the world, what you said earlier about Asia versus the UK versus the United States, everyone is in a different place, even within the United States. So there's certain states you go to, and there was, it doesn't seem like there was ever a pandemic, people never left being together. And then if you're on the coasts, it feels very much like people left being in an office together. So you find a lot of variety in the way people are approaching the return. Listen, if I were a betting woman, I would say in a couple of years, this conversation around return to work is probably not going to be happening, because we will all realize what we've lost by not being together as human beings.
But what I will say, I think should stay around and will stay around, it's just the flexibility that we've gained. I think we crave it, we want it. I think the days of, you know, FaceTime from seven to seven, or nine to five, or whatever your office day was, are probably not going to be there. And how we create spaces that enable the best in people and then enable a mix of flexibility, whether that's some remote work, some in person work, I think will be really important. So I think people are less hesitant now. And when I say people, I mean business leaders about making decisions about how they want to get people back together.
But I think, well designed spaces that support the kind of work that your company or your organization wants to do will be important. And I think people need to feel valued, they need to feel like they have a purpose, and they need to feel like they're being heard. So I think this empathy that you have to practice when you're thinking about designing a space, which is how will it serve the people that are in the best. And I don't know that our spaces in the past have always served the people that are in it the best. And that's what we have to really be thinking about as leaders, is how we bring out the best in our people in this new world and how we enable both face to face connection and trust. And then how we how we also enable flexibility in all of our lives, because I think that's really unlocked a lot for us as humans.
Alan Fleischmann
That’s so beautiful. I would like to add, maybe what you're providing and what you're designing is also culture. That was said earlier, I'm curious that, I mean, when you think about it, you can talk about the kind of environment I want to be in, and when we aspire to be together collectively. But if we want to go from being a lot of individuals into a community, there has to be some visual, some optics, you know, some way of knowing that this is what when I'm walking into this room or walking into this space.
Andi Owen
What does it feel like, right?
Alan Fleischmann
What's it feel like, exactly.
Andi Owen
Yeah. And does it feel does that you place a value on our shared humanity? Does it feel like you place value on the people that work there? Does it feel like you place a value on collaboration? And you're right, all of these things are cultural, all of these things are behaviors you want to promote, Right? And what is that saying, culture is behaviors that you accept and tolerate or that you promote? And that's ultimately what it is.
Alan Fleischmann
That's very cool. And are the cultures different than you're designing for for the global lens as Well? Do you find that there's some classic, you know, furniture that whether you're talking to US, you’re talking to Asia, anywhere in your global footprint, Europe, there tare certain things that are just they just tried and true. No matter what. There's a demand for it. There's a demand for the interest, I'm sure yes. And then there are other things that you're going to be able to create your designers and really create, that will be born out of a part of the world that may go global. But let's start with the highest.
Andi Owen
Yeah, you know, I think yes, in answer to your question, and it depends on the industry too. So, if you're thinking about financial services or doctors, there's a high need for privacy and perhaps offices. And it really depends on the work you're doing and how you design the space. And then if you look at the other end of that, and you say technology or fashion or some of the more creative industries, those spaces might be designed very differently and offices might not be important at all, but other spaces where people can collaborate and work together are actually more important. So it is widely different. There are probably some regional differences as well. But I think the differences by industry are probably more prevalent than the strict regional ones. And really, it's just about what's the work you do the culture you want to create, and then how do you support that for your environments.
Alan Fleischmann
Which has got to be important for you as a company in order for you to create for others. But one of the things I've been struck by, as a student of MillerKnoll, is how important purpose is. You know, and then bringing in a pipeline of talent that is diverse, you mentioned diversity earlier, this diversity of perspective and skills, and I would argue culture is probably right. Tell us a little bit about that, you know, how important is it to you that as you're building your global community, that you have that diversity and how you’re assuring that diversity?
Andi Owen
Yeah, it's incredibly important to us. I mean, I think if you're in the history of both Knoll and Herman Miller, and now MillerKnoll, we have always been at the forefront of enabling inclusivity and as many different points of view as possible. And at Herman Miller, it really showed up in our design philosophy. So we were very, very committed to making sure that we were bringing in outside thinking from a design perspective. So we very rarely worked with designers that worked for Herman Miller. And the same with Knoll, but we brought people in from the outside that had different perspectives. And we let those ideas and that outside thinking sort of shift the way we thought about the design projects and shift the way we thought about what we were doing. And I find that really openness to being influenced by different ideas and openness to bringing in different ways of thinking is really part of who we are.
And if you expand that to diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, while we still have a long way to go, I think as an industry and also, as a company, we make great progress in making sure that we're intentional about what that means to us, not just from a business side. It it advantageous to have people that think differently, is it advantageous to have people that reflect the world around us? Of course it is. But it also makes us more innovative, it makes us more creative, and makes us understand different kinds of problems that we need to solve, instead of looking at them from one point of view, if we're all the same. And so for us, we really have always approached this as, how can we be more innovative? How can we bring it outside thinking, and that really has evolved over the years into really being supportive of inclusivity.
Alan Fleischmann
And then you really get, you know, communities that are giving back then and building. In other words, you bring the diversity inside the house, and then you actually start to develop community outreach and other things that you can do to actually show your commitment as well. And it's a big part of the purpose I imagine at MillerKnoll too.
Andi Owen
Yeah, I mean, our purpose is to design for the good of humankind, I think, not only inclusivity. But that also speaks to, we try to do good with our business. And we've always had a foundation and when we combined into MillerKnoll, we brought together our legacies, sort of Herman Miller Cares Foundation, as well as our Knoll Charitable Foundation. And it's an amazing culture builder, because we all know there's nothing like giving back. And in fact, tomorrow is our annual Day of Purpose. It happens to be on election day in the US So we could, number one, encourage people to exercise their voice and their right to vote, but also, we do it globally. So it's a chance for us to give back and all of us in the organization to have the day off to spend time giving back in our communities. And the impact of that is really far reaching. But it also really is important for us as a business to make sure that we're showing up in that virtuous cycle. But our foundation to, if I go back to that, really has three purposes.
The first is to engage underrepresented youth in art and design. The next is to really advance equity in our millennial communities around the world which they have purposefully gone into. And then the final thing is promoting sustainability.
So sustainability has been at the heart and soul of what Herman Miller and Knoll have always done, but really being committed to not just reducing single use plastic, but really thinking about sustainability and how we're sort of borrowing the earth for our children and all the products we design and how they show up in the environment, how they impact the environment from the very, very beginning of inception is really, really important. And then as far as advocating for diversity, equity and inclusion in other ways, you know, it's really striking to me how low a percent people of color are represented in the design industry in general. So we've always been very active, and trying to make sure that we're inviting in all kinds of people, all different walks of life, all different races and ethnicities to be exposed to design, to be exposed to a career they might not know about and make sure that we're actively involved in doing that, and very intentional about doing that are really breaking down barriers to what we think is just an amazing career, to make sure that we have difference of thought, but also that we're out there in the community, talking about what we do, and making sure that people understand what we do.
Alan Fleischmann
And do you find your outreach is working, and as you reach out, you're actually getting the kind of response and reaction, this is a place for me to go work out of the thing, that you're getting that response from folks you’re reaching out to.
Andi Owen
Absolutely, and I, you know, we have five generations in our workforce, we have an incredible amount of tenure. We have people that have been here 20, 30, 40, 50 years. And then we have Gen Z that's just entering the workforce. And I find that our purpose and how we do good in the world is one of the main reasons why people have stayed for such a long time. It's also one of the main reasons why people join us that are younger. You know, my son is 17 but I think that every generation has a different perspective on why they want to work and who they want to work for. But I think the younger generation as they come into our company, for sure, our purpose, and what we do seems to be even more important than it has been in the past.
And I would say if I look at what we did, which is the Diversity and Design Collective that we were one of the founding members of a couple of years ago, and this organization, which is now a standalone nonprofit, is really devoted to kind of reducing inequities and advancing people of color in design. The response to this from companies that have joined the Collective has been really phenomenal. We have seen our membership grow in the Collective from 19 companies who founded it to over 60 now, and then 35 non-member companies that are also involved. So these are all companies that are coming in saying we want to volunteer our time, we want to be out in the community talking about the great work we do and design, we want to introduce this creative to people all on their own time, and all for a good reason. So I find that these things are things that people want to know about, and find value in as well as the work they do every day. And I just went on and on and on, I’m passionate about it.
Alan Fleischmann
No I love it. I was thinking about this as you're sharing this, because it's very inspiring. I was even thinking because the high quality of your furniture, in many ways is a good path to sustainability because, you know, it's not just durable, but there is a sense of multigenerational ownership of your furniture. So as you're building things, it's like you repurpose it, it's like having a piece of art. You repurpose it at home, or —
Andi Owen
Yeah, we want it to last. And it's in its work environment, whether that be a hospital or an office, and we want it to last years and we want you to be able to, if you grow tired of it, or you want something new, we want you to be able to repurpose that. And we have a lot of programs in place that help you if you're a corporate environment that needs to repurpose, or if you're an individual. Byou know, one of the most inspiring things for me was when I visited the plant that makes our Eames lounge and ottoman. And there's a whole corner of the plant that just handles you know, people that are sending their old Eames Lounge and Ottoman in for like a touch up, a facelift if you will, or something is broken. But fixing it and then sending it back out to its home. And that's really cool. Because you could sort of walk throughout a whole part of the plant and see these, these leathers that you know have been around for 40-50 years, and they develop this just amazing patina, right. And there's so many stories around that.
And that's kind of that's what you love, right? You want to you want to keep that stuff and you don't want it to end up somewhere being unused and in a landfill. So I think we do believe in the quality of what we do. And we do want it to last and and we want to make sure that if you need to recycle it you can take it apart in a short amount of time and recycle it if you have to. So, we're not perfect, we have a long way to go but we try to think about all of these things.
Alan Fleischmann
Be proud of the heritage and the continuity but know now to repurpose and reinvent along the way, that’s not the easiest challenge.
Has it been fun to to bring the you know Knoll with Herman Miller together, I'm sure it's challenging. It's not always fun. But has it been easier than you thought, harder than you thought?
Andi Owen
Oh, that's like the $20 million question. It's really hard. And I will say, integrating two amazing companies, honoring the past, performing in the present, and then painting the bright picture of the future, doing that constantly, it's hard. It's hard. Has it gone better than I expected? Absolutely. And I take no credit for that. But I give credit to the amazing people that I work with, because everybody here loves what they do, and they're committed. So it's been hard work. I think we're on the tail end of the really, really hard work. And I think we're able to really look at the future now and be proud of the nuts and bolts integration piece. But ultimately, I wouldn't do it any other way. If I had to make the decision over again, I would make the same decision and I knock on wood, I think most of the folks here would do the same.
Alan Fleischmann
That's exciting, actually. Because it's like, you know, you're bringing multiple universes together at the same time, around, you know, around innovation, as well. You know, what is your vision now for the collective, the MillerKnoll as a collective going forward? There's a big question, too, I apologize before I even ask it.
Andi Owen
You know, I think for us, there's so much whitespace in what we do and where we are, there's so many opportunities for growth. You know, I mentioned earlier that our industry had consolidated and shrunk with a pandemic. But I think, as people think about the spaces that they work in, they live in, that they play and that they heal in, office spaces are going to be evolving, and how we live today, and how we communicate today and the impact of remote work, all of these things change the way we think about our spaces. So there's a huge opportunity for us to address those problems of today. I think we've done a really good job of being flexible and nimble, like we have lots of little brands within our collective that are constantly innovating. And the great thing about having that little innovation pods is that we can take those ideas and small nimble parts of our company and break those out into larger ideas that can give us new avenues for growth and new potential for the future. And then we have a really small retail business that's able to grow and expand around the world. So we have no shortage of amazing ideas for how we want to grow, and how we can build on this amazing design legacy. And so, my vision is to continue to evolve, continue to innovate, continue to try new things and continue to grow. We have a ton of runway ahead of us.
Alan Fleischmann
So what do you think the biggest challenge is right now? Because I do think of you as somebody who, because you're part of the transformation, the innovation, the design, as I said before, the demand for what you do on the office space world, but also in the in the retail world, is huge. It would only go up more, because people are looking for quality not quantity, and they're looking for high end quality when they're looking for things. How does that actually, you know, in many ways leading is knowing that the yes, I'm gonna want to merge, I'm going to lead this merger. Yes, I want to be global. Yes, I want to make sure that we have a commitment to tradition and, and to innovation and transformation. But, there also must be moments when you say you don't want it because you really are at the helm of something that is so high quality and being selective matters. And maintaining that high principle of quality is not easy, unless you keep reaffirming it. So knowing when to say no too I imagine matters a lot, not just when when to say yes but what you want to say no too. I'm curious how much of that plays a role as you're being proposed different things as you're leading, globally with the merged company and MillerKnoll. You know, how much is it about saying yes, and how much is it about saying no?
Andi Owen
I just left a conversation about this. Prioritization is the key, right. And there's nothing like spending a couple of weeks with salespeople who will tell you, you know, the 35 things we don't have that they need, and trying to remember who you are, and who you serve. And we can't serve everyone, right. There are there are pockets of the world, probably more disposable, less quality. Those are places where we may not always be the best answer for filling that need. And I think for us, it's always making sure that we're focusing on how we're serving our customers the best way we possibly can. And listen, I think both of our companies, now MillerKnoll, have really led the conversation on design for decades. And we've really been able to do that. Not simply by sort of reacting to trends, which are important. But I may go back to problem solving, but by identifying problems that can be solved, and then creating solutions for them. And that's essentially what design is.
So there's always new problems to solve. And when we design, it's not only about meeting today's needs but it's also about thinking ahead to what are the demands of tomorrow going to be and just continuing that cycle. Being clear on who you're trying to serve, being clear on what the problems are, you need to solve for them thinking forward into the future to make sure that demand can coexist and live for a variety of ways. I mean, the Aeron chair is almost 30 years old, and it's still evolving, right? So doing that, and continuing to do that, and build that muscle, I think really allows us to create products and spaces, and things and solutions that our customers want today, but also, they'll use for years to come. We probably aren't going to solve every problem for everyone. But we'd like to think the ones that we say yes to, we solve well.
Alan Fleischmann
I love how you said also not giving in to trends. I mean, that's the hard part when you lose your way. You know, you want to be innovative, want to be innovative but you want to lead, you have to have a vision for a world that doesn't exist in some ways and hold on to what you know is tried and true. But the big risk for you would be if you just got caught up in the latest trend that comes and goes and all of a sudden, you're no longer the distinct company that you are.
Andi Owen
Yeah, I guess the good news in furniture is that we move a little bit more slowly. And it takes a long time to create something. So our trends and a little bit more slowly than other industries. But you're right. I mean, I think the good part about having a business like ours is that we have, as I said, so many smaller businesses that are, you kind of do stuff and fail, right. You’ve got to make mistakes, and you have to pursue some things that might be risky. And so we have the ability to do that in a variety of ways. And that's, that's the training ground. That's the fun part, when you can look at a whole line of things that were colossal failures, but it led to this one great idea that wasn't. And so we really utilize those smaller brands and those little pockets in our business to try out some of those ideas, because you never know. Keeps you fresh, right.
Alan Fleischmann
Keeps you fresh, it creates a culture where, you know, risk is okay, you know. We take some risks, we can live in a supply and demand kind of world, we can test it, we'll know soon enough whether it works or not, at least immediately at least. Some things work later. So if you really believe in what you've designed, then maybe you reintroduce it again, or you find a way to message it differently so that people can see what you're trying to do for them. But it's very much a supply and demand type world, I imagine.
Andi Owen
And it may be that the problem that you're solving, it may be that your solution is ahead of its time or I mean, we go back to our archives quite a bit and and look at things that we've tinkered around with, because the world is always changing and changing very quickly, as we all know. So you know, it's actually an amazing environment to be in. But your point about failure, Alan, is a really good one. Because you really do have to celebrate the failures. And you have to sort of trot them out and have a party around them. Because if you don't do that, people will avoid it, and people will hide it, and then you're not going to learn as much. So being able to fail, and really autopsy your failures and understand it is critical. People say that all the time. But it takes muscle to understand how to do that. And, and I'm really proud of the folks here because I think they do it really well. Not something I taught them. They did it before I got here.
Alan Fleischmann
Well, it's a great history, great heritage. Are there certain things that are a part of the organization of the company that lends to that creativity and that willingness to take risks?
Andi Owen
Oh, gosh, I mean, I guess I would say it's ingrained in our culture. But I think we are, we have hired and we continue to support and create environments where curiosity and asking questions and experimentation are really, really important. And as you kind of work in an environment, even if you look at our plants, as we try to make sure that we're reducing human struggle in everything that we're doing, we're solving problems all the time. So we're all always asking questions about why did this happen and what can we do to change it and why and why and why. And I think that leads to just an environment of curiosity and it leads to an environment where asking why and suggesting a better way, or suggesting a different way, I mean, that's most of our jobs, right? Especially as you solve problems. So I think that's a little bit of a special sauce is just the curiosity. And that, sort of like a toddler, you know, always asking why, what's happening.
Alan Fleischmann
To create skill in life. Are there certain things like that that become part of what you what you admire about other leaders?I know, knowing you well enough as I do you're not going to want to say, well, this is my leadership principles necessarily, but are there principles that you do here, that you do believe in that are kind of universal that do carry you forward? And you may have learned them along the way from mentors, but that you'd want to share for example.
Andi Owen
Well, I think honesty and curiosity are at the top of that list, but I also think, today especially, I think empathy and compassion, always. Not just for the people you work with and for, but for your customers and for society as a whole. Gosh, we live in a very divided world right now. And I think empathy and compassion really go a long way. And I think it's a critical part of leadership. And I think it also comes from being in tune with what's happening in the world. And as I said before, sort of learning and letting the world influence your point of view. And, you know, as you learn more, it changes your perspective on things, and you become more empathetic. So I think those are really important. I also think, I've always admired people that use their talents and skills to create change. So not just in a corporate environment, but really use their talents and skills to create change in the world and in their communities around them. And I think, as business leaders, and as leaders, there are so many amazing people out there who are making the world a better place. And I think that that's a responsibility that we have as leaders as well.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. I love curiosity. You said earlier, “I don't know,” you know, having that culture, its okay to be curious, it's okay to actually say you don't know something. Doesn't mean anything is wrong with you, it means you should figure it out quickly so you do know, but it's a wonderful thing to have that openness, that curiosity, that humility, the ability and a culture of respect. That's a word I keep thinking up to when you're talking is that there's a sense of respect to the customer and a sense of respect to the colleague. And then if you're really dealing with things that are so much a part of our aesthetic, and the quality of our life, the fact that you're speaking to it means you're helping us develop a design in our own lives, which means you gotta respect us, which is pretty amazing. That's exciting.
Andi Owen
That’s absolutely true.
Alan Fleischmann
Well this has been really wonderful, I knew I’d need another hour with you.
Andi Owen
Time flies with you, Alan.
Alan Fleischmann
It goes by too quickly. You've been listening to Leadership Matters of SiriusXM and on leadershipmattersshow.com. I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann. We've had an extraordinary hour with Andi Owen, who's the president and CEO of MillerKnoll. And we've been discussing her journey, this incredible transformation by bringing Herman Miller with Knoll together, the return to the office and how important she sees it. And, actually, how we all should see it and we're going to be seeing it soon enough in different parts of the world, we see it differently. But the idea that through quality and aesthetics, we can build culture, and build better quality of life. It's very exciting, actually. Really humbling, because you make me look at the environment that I'm in very differently every day, which is really nice.
Andi Owen
Good!
Alan Fleischmann
We have to invest in our future by investing in how we all interact with one another and spend so much of our life together in those environments, so thank you for this so much for the time
Andi Owen
Thank you, Alan. It was such a pleasure. I appreciate it.
Alan Fleischmann
Me too.